ASR Formula Open Wheel Classic 92 Season LE rF1 Conversion

Discussion in 'Vehicles' started by Sderenno, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Sderenno

    Sderenno Registered

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    Thanks a lot Frenky,

    for us the important thing is that there is always a good feeling and that cars do not become impossible to drive and / or too large adjustments which, when used in championships, oblige participants to spend hours in the setup rather than driving
     
  2. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Yeah, I understand that. This is exactly the reason why I didn't and won't change the balance of the car that much. It is already good and the mod is very fun to drive. Let me know what you like, but also what you don't like about the physics update. Always trying to help and improve here!
     
  3. GCCRacer

    GCCRacer Banned

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    Please DON'T make an SP mod of this.

    I'd never get any work done anymore. :D

    Would such a thing be possible as an update - i.e on top of?
     
  4. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Lol.
    Yes, I think, looking at ASR's file structure, it is possible to make a "single player update" to install on top of ASR's own version. File size for the update may be even below 2 MB.
    The rF2 programm, or better said the mod manager, only allows 1 update to install over a mod. That was my problem with the F1RFT2013 mod; they published version 1.0 and soon afterwards version 1.1 as an update. And you cannot install an update (my single player kit) over an update (version 1.1 of F1RFT2013). So I had to make a whole new mod for that. If I compress my changes of the F1RFT2013 mod, I would end up with a zip file of less than 2 MB. But I had to make a rfmod file with the tracks of 3.38 GB. That's where rFactor sometimes makes me mad...
     
  5. GCCRacer

    GCCRacer Banned

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    Sounds perfect. It might even mean that future GFX improvements (drivers arms, black screen) would not require a rebuild of your SP update.

    Didn't know you can't have multiple updates on top of a mod...
     
  6. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    Frenky, the slipstream was more significant and beneficial to the following cars back then. There was no aero gizmo to disrupt the air so bad as recent days. Today you need cars stalling the rear wing to gain any benefit to approach the car ahead, so these two important aspects you have interpreted the opposite way. There isn't THAT much downforce at the front in 1992, why remove it more? Mechanical grip played a big role and also if you watch videos you'll see how much cars gain by drafting.

    I appreciate your understanding of how to alter things but it's important you don't go the wrong way :). Also, how did you calculate the CoG being 5cm higher? That makes a huge difference. And the brake duct level increased at 400%? Lastly, how much are you reducing downforce after contact, and based on what? We're both after the same thing (1992 H.E.) :).

    Cheers
     
  7. jrcn50

    jrcn50 Registered

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    I've tried the mod updated on Sao Paulo track and I like it a lot: very fun to drive and I'd be happy if Frenky continued updating the mod this way.
    And if you don't like it, don't update it!...:)
     
  8. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Don't worry, we are going the same way. It is difficult for me to answer some questions of you, as English is not my mother language and I don't know what your modding skills are. But let me try to explain.
    Now, I already discovered that you loose too much downforce following another car. I will alter this figure, so that you can more easily follow cars while cornering. This figure does nothing of the downforce levels of the wings and the diffuser/undertray itself when you are not following cars. I'm testing a new update right now, and I haven't changed the downforce levels of the wings.

    Second question, yes the drag level of the brake duct is 400% higher. The original value was nearly 0, so 400% times a value near 0 is still very small compared to the drag coming from the wings and bodywork.
    Third question, the CoG is about 5 cm higher. I did not calculate this value, but searched on the internet for values of the 1992 season. I came up with a source stating that the CoG was somewhere between 220-280 mm for those cars. I looked in the original physics file and found a value of 175 mm (which is about the CoG of the cars of my F1RFT2013 mod). Hence an increase of 50 mm.
    Last question, "how much are you reducing downforce after contact". Well, I'm talking about contact with other cars and walls that damages your own car. In the damage file, a minimum impulse due to impact is defined. If you surpass this minimum, you will feel "damages in aerodynamics". So if you make contact with someone in front, you will loose front downforce. I haven't changed how much downforce you loose (this also depends on small or big impact). So I only changed the minimum impuls; e.g. even a slight touch will give you some aero damage now.

    Hope you understand the most of it :p. Have fun racing and stay tuned!
     
  9. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    @ all
    Very interesting discussion and a good idea Frenky! :D
     
  10. GCCRacer

    GCCRacer Banned

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    A great base from ASR, with some more community-infused ideas into historic physics, this could be a huge win.
     
  11. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    Je peux lire français, si ça est plus facile pour toi ;). Thanks for the response, when you mentioned the CoG I was wondering if you put it in a proper range from it being too low beforehand. So having it at 22-23cm seems perfectly fine :). 6cm is a large range, I wonder how accurate such info is. Of course the range goes from Williams all the way through a lower team, but where can you find that info especially for teams like Larrousse, Andrea Moda, Footwork.

    About drag and the aero loss - yes, you do lost grip chasing someone through some corners but given how much drag the cars had and how closely they were able to race following someone, it is imperative you don't move away from that. Mansell's car isn't the best example due to the suspension electronics maximizing the mechanical grip, but when he followed Senna, there was no discernible aero wash.

    About the aerodynamic damage. I'd just venture a guess to a component - like front wing - not negatively influencing until say, there's 10% damage. Or make the aero penalty very small, basically no more than .1-.2s lost unless you're missing part of front wing... then let's say you must repair it or lose 1s over a lap. Be reasonable, not too extreme. Oh, on the brake duct 400%.... fair play!

    I appreciate modders working together and I am only vocal because this is something I believe may influence the official releases going forward. That means this work you're doing on your own should be given good attention so you can achieve something as best as possible. Who knows, it might even help Sderenno getting even better. In the end a massive win-win for everyone. I hope you find my posting to be constructive and clear, if you need any clarification feel free to contact me. If you must write in French, Italian, Spanish... go for it but don't make sentences way too long :p.
     
  12. Frenky

    Frenky Registered

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    Okay guys, I made another update of the physics (v1.816). Changes:
    - completely reworked the thermal properties of the engine. This needs more testing!
    - introduced rev limiter, as well as 4 radiator settings => radiator setting 1 should only be used for 1 hotlap! Be sure to use at least setting 2 (default = 3). A higher radiator setting results in less downforce and slightly more drag.
    - decreased the downforce loss due to drafting, especially on the front
    - increased the power and torque of the engine with 1.2%. Now the car produces 760 hp @14750 rpm (was 752 hp)
    - reworked the diffuser equations => there is just as much downforce as before, but when the car is bottoming, the handling is more twisty. Same holds for driving over kerbs
    - minor adjustments on the wings, the AI and the suspension (mostly not notable, I guess)

    https://mega.co.nz/#!9AYlwATA!Oy0fRDkWLAAl7jGtNoWo_TfODdnhR_oyuRIDYXfqqUo

    Have fun racing!
     
  13. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    I can't wait to give this a go :).
    What did you do about the engine? There's a good chance those values are copied from another rF2 car - which is based off real data - so just wondering if whatever was altered is still a possible reality, especially for early 1990s.
     
  14. Sderenno

    Sderenno Registered

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    I knew that 92 could be a good test for this we have converted, although the results as graphic is not the best. But I can assure you that nothing is wasted all good things to use on vettutre ASR, we have so many work in progress and I can tell you that they are a feast for the eyes.
     
  15. GCCRacer

    GCCRacer Banned

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    The way I see it, there are some minimal GFX bugs left in '92 (bit low-poly tires, driver arms, the black screen flashes) but short of that, it would be a perfect first "full season" while we wait for 91 and the others to come onto the grid.
     
  16. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    Steering wheels :p
     
  17. Associat0r

    Associat0r Registered

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    Thanks for your work. BTW, could the suspensions and engine be made more vulnerable (less strong) too, so that wheels fly off more easily and we can't just drive away from acidents like this.

    It always bothered me that we could just drive away after a huge crash. I even made an exe hex patch back in the F12K2, F1C days to increase the damage slider range to 200% so I didn't have to manually increase vulnerability for all the cars and mods separately.

    Some default ISI cars also suffer from this same problem. I wish 100% damage actually meant realistic damage. There is no need for strong cars anymore, as the AI is now very good at avoiding accidents.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2015
  18. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Yes, please work together. If Frenky is getting positive results, that are also more accurate historically, please incorporate them in the original mod.

    A mod for a HE edition instead of LE version is a great idea, but having different physics and other key elements would be unfortunate. Frenky, do you mind contributing to the ASR effort?? They are the best in terms of attitude and production (as you can see and read here), so another talented modder contributing will only make it better.
     
  19. Associat0r

    Associat0r Registered

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    Thank for all this, although for me the graphics are already pretty good, I look forward to it.

    Thanks, looking forward to test this. Btw do you have any ideas on how active suspension could be handled and if ISI has any official plans for that?
     
  20. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Thanks Frenky but I think that update link went to the same original update?? or is that the double update issue that Im getting?
     

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