RFactor 2: Best overall physics in simracing... FR3.5: ATM, one of the worst sim-cars

That's what I thought as well, and saw in Spinelli's first video where the first scene he is taking the turn too slow, which makes him lose down force, and cause the problems. (not to mention the angle he took) (not to mention scene2 where the tires get overheated and he keeps pushing) (not to mention riding a curb which makes him lose down force)
Took me a while as well to get the hang of it and not saying this is the root of all of the above, but generating essential down force by going faster through turns makes the car much more stable.
We did many races in this car, including a championship and whilst i'm not the most technical guy around, its pretty frigging epic nonetheless. In all scene's in the first vid it is possible to go through them smoothly and fast and be stable at the same time.

 

make sure you have adequate grip level set. if the track doesnt have scripted grip you can make one by starting practice w/ a bunch of cars, pressing ctrl+x to FF, & save the realroad after theyve laid some rubber down.

there seems to suddenly be an opinion that the indy road car is realistic & this car is not...i dont drive the indycar bc its never felt realistic, i'm not good w/ open wheelers but the thing is stuck to the ground, it def doesnt drive a lot like iracings model which i trust more in terms of accuracy. still dont understand why it hasnt been updated now that its been nearly a year.

cant contribute to the actual discussion unfortunately but i thought the above was odd & wanted to note it.

 

What car are we talking about?

The ISI F3.5 2014 has white text on the tire walls
The ISI F3.5 2010 has white text on the tire walls ==> this car is very difficult to drive. Not fun at all for me.

That F3.5 version in your video has red text on the tire walls.
My guess is that it is a modded F3.5 2010 version.

And what track is it? Maybe a not so good converted track. The curbs in your video seems to be made of ice.

 

I know folks believe what they want to believe, I think it was the throttle thing I proved but uhm yeah. Anyway, @14seconds I seen some bad driving or someone trying to spin out. Hit a tiny crest with a bump, lose a bit of rear end, still have lots of throttle with late or no counter steer, spun out. Heck, there was still throttle on when he was facing the wrong way. I stopped it there. I'd be concerned about my wheel or pedals first. shrug

 

Hey spinelli, please try the just released new skippy, and tell us if you feel the same issue with it! I haven't yet, but for me the skippy always felt extremly well made, and some of the best feedback one can get. I haven't driven the FR35 alot, so i can't really speak for it. But for the sake of this thread, i will do some running in it too.

 

Hi Spinelli
@14 seconds in your video, all the rear weight load is on the right wheel, the car needs a better setup.
You can also see the tyre load in the Motec datas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGe76NJ7T5U

 

I also think, there is a mayor problem in your setup Spinelli. The rear unsettles as soon you leave coasting. For me it look's like the rear springs/ARB are to stiff, or rear rideheight is to low, forcing the rear suspension hitting packers to early and to hard.
But i agree with you, while rF2 physic isn't perfect, it is the best or at least one of the best available these days.

I, for myself, wouldn't rate the tire-physic really seriously, as long as the advanced contact patch simulation and track-surface effects are not in.

 

I think Spinelli has explain(show) perfect what is wrong, its up on you if you want to try understand or not. Is not problem in what cause the spin, of course if you have bad setup or manage bad your input, you will spin. Is problem how physics react from point rear end start to loose grip.

 

It seems to be a classic case of 'he said, she said'. Within this thread a few people feel these issues are real and present and perhaps more than a few feel they are not in the simulation but stem from car setup issues.

If the 'long standing ISI engine issues' identified by the OP are present and have been since the start of ISI's work then surely someone from ISI must have talked about it at some point in their history. Has anyone ever seen a response in the past?

 

Drive another car, stop whining ffs .........omg you people 3 years of it.

 

I re-read Spinelli's text and his video, a few times now. I think the dropoff of grip at high slip angels (above 20deg), could be a bit higher. Or other said, the tire is able to translate to much cornering force at this high slip angels, for a slick tyre.
Which would explain the impressions he got, assuming i understand him corectly.
For example the slides shown on the last two videos from Gijs van Elderen, shouldnd be possible in this form. The car would most likely spun in both cases.

These are minor things, which hopefully a more exact contact patch simulation could correct. I don't see a fundamental flaw in the physic engine.

This is most likely my last post in this thread, as i think this discussion could go endless, and goes to nowhere.

 

EXACTLY! I'm not great at explaining things in short and to-the-point form, maybe that's all I needed to say.

 

I think there is certainly room for improvement in this area. What i also noticed is that it is to easy to go around corners with high slip angles... And you dont loose too much time when doing this. To me the grip falloff seems to forgiving and this results in the feeling spinelli describes. -> overrotation

 

Here the slip angles are way higher

 

He saved it thanks to the kerb(7.5sec) not really because the tyres griped, the same happened with Plato's save.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FYEV66U-Go

 

Hi Spinelli, you have often claimed having a really heavily modified FFB. This since RF1.

I was wondering, how linear is your throttle pedal sensitivity ?
Also, could you redo the test with the tire temps showing ? i'd be curious at how hot they start and end in these situations.

Another one would be to see if you get the same reactions with the default FFB settings.

Of course with a stock FR3.5 and an ISI track, the results should less debatable too...

 

I've found that in some cars significantly stiffer rear (springs and dampers), compared to the front, while producing more "natural" oversteer, makes the slides much more controllable. Setting them to understeer doesn't help at all. Unfortunately I have not tested this with FR3.5.

 

Bad example indeed.

Also it's about the speed and momentum at which you can continue in Rfactor, if a car brakes loose. Not about the ability to save a car per se.

 

What I find interesting is that when the rears spin up the pedal input graph shows him applying even more throttle. Spinelli also confirms that he is seeing the throttle input go up yet he claims he is not. Well I have to tell you this graph doesn't lie. It is directly connected to the pedal inputs. If they are moving then there is no debating whether your foot was moving. I agree with Dalek that maybe the throttle is set to be too non-linear on his controller config.

 

Well for me The 2010 fr 3.5 is the worst sim car ever, The 2014 FR 3.5 on the other hand is brilliant, My favorite car by a large margin. I'm not a really a great driver, and frankly this is the only open wheel where I can post decent times and have a control of the vehicule at all time. One thing that changed my perception of the car is that I downloaded a brilliant setup, completely different car after that.