Official Oculus Rift Consumer version one announcement

I see, Paul. Thanks for clearing that all up for me.

One question though. What's the difference with regards to the image on the screen getting rendered when you turn your head in a VR device, and when you turn your view/"head" around in a regular game on a monitor? With the exception of being handled by head tracking rather than a controller/mouse/keyboard/etc. how is there a difference? Thanks.

 

The difference is this: when you turn your head with a monitor, the real world turns with you. The real world doesn't lag behind waiting for a frame update.

I'm not sure this is entirely true, but some of the Oculus guys used to explain it as an evolutionary thing humans developed. So that if you ate something that was poisonous, and your perception started lagging as a result, the resulting blurred motion would force you to get nauseous and vomit out the remaining poison from your stomach. Supposedly it's a remnant of that safety system that's built into humans.

VR, even at this level, is real enough on certain levels to trigger the brain to go into panic mode if certain basics are not met. It's basically the whole reason behind VR's latency obsession. The lower you get, the more the brain buys in. It's just, it also works the other way too. The higher it gets, the more panicked the brain becomes. It doesn't actually understand what's wrong, just that something is off with reality.

 

Poor choice of words on my part, what I meant was when you turn the in-game head of a character like when you move your mouse around and your view is changing on the screen. For example, thing of a first person shooter when you move the mouse to look around, or the look left/right buttons in racing game, or the freecam mode in rFactor, etc. how is that different to VR (besides the fact it's controlled by your controls instead of your head)?

Edit: I think I see what you're saying. Are you talking about the total time from your head movement to the time that movement is fully rendered on screen so that the rendered image is as close to as 1:1 instant as is possible with your physical head movements?...The image being a fraction of a section behind your head movements is what can make you nauseous since in real-life it's extremely instant. You're right, that problem doesn't exist with monitors because you have your real-world around you combined with the fact that the view in-game isn't controlled by your head/neck. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

Yeah. The second part.

The main issue is the rules change when the brain actually believes something is reality (at a core sub-system level). I don't think anyone is consciously mistaking DK2 VR experiences for reality, but at certain sub-levels of the brain, those brain systems are accepting VR as reality. So things that would ordinarily not be a big deal, become a huge deal when the brain's sub-systems start wondering WTF is happening.

 

I would never have thought of that, amazing, thanks for sharing.

 

I turn my head in mine & view seamless movement, nothing wrong is perceived, it seems 1:1 & the lowest latency I've ever experienced

I can't look into the apex's fully on a triple screen setup ( use to use 3x 27" screens as in pic )
with VR I can freely look around which gives great awareness

I'm surprised ( yet interested ) that monitors are still being considered as a setup option with the next gen of VR headsets just around the corner

ps I understand some just don't get along with the the res of the dk2 I've always been fine with this as I used to run my triple screen 3d vision setup at fairly low resolutions ( for low latency / high fps etc )

I think things will gradually change as new VR's are released , I'm racing in VR is total immersion heaven for me

I never experience nausea in sim racing ( but do when I've tried walk around titles due to know grounded reference graphic )

ps I think some also max out settings to much thus reducing performance that's otherwise needed for a good VR experience ( motion & fluid graphics ) + maybe using lower end PCs not capable

I run with as many things off as possible well within limits & cap fps at 205fps
this is just my own experience of course

 

Not really sure what you're addressing here, Adrian.

The whole above topic is with regards to sample-and-hold. That's kind of how the topic got started. What's the difference between G-Sync's "low persistence" light flashing, and the DK2's disabling of the entire image. I was just pointing out how different the DK2 low persistence actually is. I think you would attest that racing in the DK2, at 60hz using the sample and hold rate, is an absolute smear fest if your turn your head. If VR didn't have low persistence screens, I'd throw it in the garbage. I would not have lasted 5 minutes with the DK1 (although I guess those guys trained themselves to not turn their head much). Thankfully DK2 has low persistence @75 hz (although I eagerly await the CV1/Vive taking it to 90hz).

Your right about the DK2 having terrific latency. It's much better than racing with 3D Vision. So I'm glad Spinnelli has jumped on board with this and has accepted that VR is nirvana for anyone obsessed with latency.

 

Spin, forgive me if Paul and others have already answered this but the difference between wearing the rift and turning your physical head to control the virtual head vs keeping your physical head still and controlling your virtual head with a mouse would produce the exact same smearing effect if low persistence were disabled in both scenarios. Likewise, with it enabled, zero smearing for both too.

 

Thanks for all the info, guys. VR is definitely the way to go, I could always see that, I just didn't/don't personally agree that it's yet[/] ready for me (key word being "yet"). I'm definitely a fan and supporter though as it gets better and better. There are advancements being made in order to allow you to see your real-life stuff like your own arms, hands, wheel, cockpit, etc. And the whole latency thing is being looked and and continually improved by the VR headset companies as-well has the video card companies so that makes me extremely optimistic. Not to mention high refresh rates, "parallel" rendering for dual GPU amazingness, low persistance modes that give the same sort of CRT-like experience that, for e.g., "Lightboost" on traditional monitors gives, etc. etc.

It's all falling into place nicely.


P.S. PaulG, not that it's really relevant here, but small correction - Nvidia's GSync has nothing to do with low persistence. In-fact, GSync isn't even capable of being enabled if the monitor is in low persistence (e.g., "Lightboost," "ULMB" ["Ultra Low Motion Blur], "Blur Reduction Mode," "Turbo240," etc.) mode. I think it has to do with the fact that LCD pixels (including the fastest TN panels) just aren't fast enough.

GSync is just to make your monitor's refresh rate dynamically change to your game's framerate. Think of it as an adaptive form of monitor refresh rate. This allows the user to experience a tearing and fluid free game without the need to use VSync which can introduce lag and make some framerate drop situations even more apparent than without VSync. It (GSync) also allows the user to experience the fluidity and tear-free nature of VSync - even though the framerate may be fluctuating - rather than trying to make sure the game's framerate is always capable of the monitor's refresh rate which can be quite demanding nowadays thanks to higher-than-60 refresh rates (e.g., 72, 85, 100, 110, 120, 144 hertz) and higher than 1080p 16:9 resolutions (e.g., "ultrawide" aspect ratios [e.g., 21:9], triple screens, 1440P, 4K, 5K, soon 8K, etc.).

 

I think he meant the selectable ULMB (low persistence) mode that is only available with Nvidia Gsync monitors. Don't think he meant both modes working simultaneously.

 

After 6 months off from sim-racing and rF2, I'm thinking to return to this my sim-racing passion and I'm planning to buy a new cockpit/steering wheel....
I already decided which cockpit I will buy(the Rs1 cockpit), the steering wheel(the T300 GTE).... but I'm very undecided between the triple monitor/VR !
Some times I tell my self, go for a triple screen again which seems to be a safe choice and some times I want to wait for the Oculus Rift consumer version which seems to be a very risky choice !
What do you think guy's? is it worth to wait a few months or to go, again, for triple?

 

Forget the t300 toy and spend money on sthng decent. Then u will think about displays

 

Well, I don't have unlimited budget so the T300 is a good choice.
Yea, the T300 isn't at the same level of the CSW V2 for example, but its surely a big step over the G27.
Said this, I need advice about triple/VR..thanks
Ps: it will be the T300 with the Fanatec ClubSport Pedals V2 .

 

Hold out for the hive or oculus CV !
You could always send it back after a few days of trying it if you really don't get on with it
Make sure your pc has some beef

The penny will drop with the masses & VR will catch on within the next two years -monitors will become a thing of the past
Except for office/design use

We'll look back at these types of forum discussions & laugh

Some people said the "talkies" would never catch on
( when silent movies were mainstream but a soundtrack was starting to be added )

 

Get the TX instead of the T300RS The extra 33% price ($100) of the T300RS from the TX is almost pointless since they come with the same sized rim as eachother, same FFB/base, etc.

Along with the TX, I'd get the stock T500RS rim as it's the only bigger sized rim Thrustmaster offers. It would be the rim to go for when driving road cars, all sorts of touring and GT cars, and even karts (karts dont have the smallest of rims). You can find them (T500RS rim) used for $60 or so,

Then for open wheel cars and cars with smaller rims (prototypes, some GT cars etc.), use the smaller stock TX rim.

I believe the Ferrari F1 wheel has a smaller diameter than the T500RS rim and is therefore closer (if not the same) to the TX/T300RS/458GT/leather rim. Therefore you may even able to replace the smaller TX rim with the Ferrari F1. You can sell the TX rim for probably $50 or so.

Then sell the TX pedals ($30-$50?) and get the TM T3PA non-pro pedals. The T3PA pedals sell for $100 (or is it $90?) instead of $150 or so for the T3PA Pros which are identical in terms of actual use (the throw, feel, resistance, options for brake resistance & feel etc.).

You end up with the same base and sized rim as the T300RS while spending $100 less, plus the bigger sized T500RS wheel, possibly a smaller and rectangular rim, and the less-expensive-but-just-about-identical T3PA pedals - easily the best "budget" setup in simracing in my opinion.

 

Yeah. That was just a slip of jargon as I was quickly banging out that reply.

 

Dr1, just to let you know, some non-GSync/FreeSync monitors also happen to come with stroboscopic low persistence modes. For example, the BenQ XL2720Z. BenQ just calls it "Blur Reduction Mode" instead of "Ultra Low Motion Blur" ("ULMB").

Again, moot point but just for the sake of info

 

hehe, it happens.

Ah, interesting. Was not aware of this so thanks.

 

As another DK2 owner I can tell you, don't ever think about triple screen. It's a waste of money for simracing now that VR is just around the corner, you will understand when you try it

 

Thanks, yea I think that I should wait for DK3!
Here in Israel 3 27' monitors costs about 1200$ and the Rs1 triple screen stand costs about 650$, so at this point I should !wait