so i drove the clios a lot last nite, i think im starting to get where you guys are coming from.. I think over one lap yeah both gsc and rf2 feel similar, but over a race thats where rf2 comes into it more dynamically with rr and the tyre wear. The ai seem more advanced to. So yes i can see the advancement in the engine. Not taking away nothing from what reiza have done....
Physics wise, It's just different. I can sense the same thing happen in gsc as I can in any RF1 based mod/sim from the best to the most terrible. All sorts of little things that scream (well at-least scream to me, maybe others can't perceive/sense it) "RFactor 1 physics" engine. By the way, I'm not talking about tyre wear, realraod, and all that stuff. "plugging" those things into RF1/GSCE wouldn't make the cars behave like RF2. Once you start pushing the cars near and over their limits you just get all sorts of RF1 physics/behaviour sensations that I felt since the first time I played RF1 back in late 2005... - Rear rotating in a weird way (not that RF2 has fully fixed this, actually no sim has except the Driver's Republic alpha/beta from years ago, but rF2 has definitely improved upon it). - The way the tyres grip/slip and bite in RF2 (still room for improvement in RF2 but definitely a step up from RF1). -This weird vagueness in the rear rotation when balancing it just a little too much passed the limit (especially with stiffer, more "hardcore" cars). - An area in rear-rotation where this digital feeling takes over as if the car is temporarily disconnected to the physics engine. - The rear being saved with much leas lock than you think it naturally needed (RF2 improved here) which causes you too over-correct, or causes the car to stop it's rear-slide in a weird and abrupt way. - Cars seeming to have overly progressive and slow slides in order to make them more controllable on the limit rather than being able to have the car slide and react at a quicker rate while still keeping as much controllability. - Cars that are forgiving can be driven and saved almost with slow-motion reactions, for eg. sometimes when I get big oversteer with the GSCE Mini (or a ton of other similar RF1 cars) on corner entry entering a fast and long corner, I can have the car go into a big oversteer slide but my corrections needed can be applied so slowly as if something isn't right, it's like the physics engine has a problem making a car stiff, agile, light, and "edgy" while at the same time making that edginess controllable and progressive, it's like it has to sort of compensate one area for the other but in RF2 the cars can be stiff, agile, light and "edgy" but can still keep the same controllability without having a sort of slow-motion slide having to be resorted to. - RF1 car's generally can't be "man-handled" over the limit as much as RF2 (again, RF2 aint perfect, but definitely an improvement). The RF1 cars just generally do weird and digital things, for eg. the F3 or even the 95 Ferrari - compared to different 90s RF2 F1 cars - acts in the same typical way of any RF1-based high-powered open-wheeler; they get into weird digital slips and slides, I could even see that "it was the same old RF1 story" in the 95 Ferrari F1 preview video (at Montreal) that Reiza released (Niels driving). It looked fun, awesome, intense, etc. but I could just see so much RF1 in the overall car-behavior (the best that RF1 is capable of though, and an amazing feat in itself ); everything acts too darty and digital. Even the way the nose rotates into the corner under entry-oversteer just has this darty, digital, RF1 physics to it (again, RF2 DEFINITELY isn't perfect in this particular area, in-fact it still has major problems in this area relative to real-life, but I do feel it's slightly improved over RF1 but not nearly as much as all the other RF2-RF1 improvements). Even the way the front-tyres the Ferrari slowly grab and then meet their limit seems quite "off" (once again, RF2 isn't perfect here but definitely improved). BTW, I'm not discussing FFB, just vehicle dynamics. P.S. Reiza are AMAZING. GSCE is my 2nd favorite sim, so please don't take my post the wrong way.
I don't understand people, I could tell the difference in pCARS, AC rF2 in one lap it permeates the entire sims. But I said AC was too semi-sim feeling and pCARS Lotus was too easy to turn in and get tar and feathered. Yet ..........now people are debating why in the new leaked video AC Corvette it is 60-70kph faster ! in one turn at Nords then the quickest supercar !!! Of course all those with blind faith have a "perfectly logical reason" . ( rolleyes ) lol ........and why a middle of the pack driver like me can beat Bathurst 12 hour lap record in a 458GT2 whilst sipping coffee in one session. lol
thanks again for the explanation spinelli, I can understand what you mean. I have noticed these differences now in the clio compared to the mini...
You're welcome. Honestly though, I love Rieza, Game Stock Car, and Formula Truck. They bring about so much polish to, well, everything in that engine: the graphics, FFB, circuits, and of course - the most important thing - the physics. I hope my previous post isn't taken the wrong way by anyone. GSC really is a damn-well exceptional sim, and it's only going to get better - thanks to Reiza's physics-plugin updates which will be changing the physics in ways that can't normally be done (unless you have access to the core gmotor-exe itself like ISI obviously do). I can go on and on but I'll just say one more thing: anyone who loves simracing should own a copy of Game Stock Car and support Rieza. P.S. Imagine Rieza's ability\skills & polish/refinement combined with the power and sophistication of a further matured RF2 engine? Talk about the sim of all sims!
spinelli what is wrong with the 370z.. no matter what i do i get this horrible scrubbing sound everytime i turn, be it slow or fast speed. I tried altering the camber but didnt really help.. I dont get this in the clio or any other car tbh. It just feels so rubbish.. even on heated tyres and rubbered track. On another point.. Empty box, says (not gospel i know but) GSC has rewarding but forgiving physics.. I actually spin out more in the mini than i do the clio.. The clio doesnt seem to want to ever fall off the track no matter what i drive like. I would say the clio is easier to save than the mini is. Maybe thats down to simplier physics i dont know. also im not one of those people that think the harder it is the more realistic it is dan
I don't think anything is 'wrong' as such with the 370z. It sounds like you're simply demanding too much of the front tires. The key to going fast in that car is definitely slow in fast out. Too high entry speed equals bad understeer and equally bad lap times. That's my experience anyway.
The clio may be easier to save because of the physics engine, or just because of the way the car has been programmed to handle, or because of FFB, or because of setup, etc. You can't say a sim is worse/better just because a car is easier / more difficult to save. It's much more complex then that. However, if a car is easier or more difficult to save in an unnatural way (weird, arcadey, overly difficult, just all wrong and messed-up, etc.) then that's a different story. Personally, I don't experience any such traits when it comes to saving RF2-Clio-rear-slides relative to saving GSCE-Mini-rear-slides. I do feel a bit of the opposite at times though - due mostly to the RF1 tyre model and overall physics engine (not a fault of Rieza's - of course). P. S. I can get the Clio into massive oversteer. In-fact, I use a massively different setup than stock because I just get insane oversteer and a general overly-driving-"on"-the-front-nose type of behavior. About the Nissan, it could just be the way the sounds were programmed into the car, it may not necessarily be a physics thing, but it may be. I haven't driven it in a while.
so I just put the meganes on interlagos, and it was probably 10 minutes of the most realistic racing ive had on a sim. That's when I thought this is the sweet spot im in with rf2. this was also back to back with Reizas stock cars at interlagos, I could literally feel the physics at work over what was happening in GSC. I think finally I know what the upgrade is and I have to say wow.. I did think Reizas track version looked better, I would like to see RF2 made to look nicer, but if that's gfx im after ill go and buy pcars.. and im not.. Just a quickie what multiplier do you guys put RR on for small 10 min races? dan
I hope that's not reflective of your attention span! RR, for a quick race, use a preset and then realtime. If you don't have any presets for the track, let the AI burn one in for you. If you want to start with a green track, then 15x RR for a 10 min race.
ok thanks Can i ask ....for my understanding what elements do not work properly/as intended atm in rf2. Just so i can avoid these scenarios in future. i.e.: ai choose wrong tyres in rain, or rain doesnt work etc etc.. example. cheers
Not yet because I just got my new PC up and running but I definitely will be tonight and this weekend
just wanted to say that i don't for one minute regret getting back into rf2, i think the break helped me realise that rf2 is the technological leader in race sims on the PC. PLayed hours of the karts yesterday on the mountain long kart track, and after every lap as the rubber laid down, it just got so satisfying to drive, on top of the almost perfect AI. An ai I've been seeking since my race pro days. I thank ISI for this, I've been harsh in the past, but now i can full respect what they have done. As much as GSC, RRE and AC are good in their own right and these are mighty good sims, the depth of RF2 just can't be matched. A race just isn't the same lap after lap, every lap is different as your looking for grip made by the real road. I won't lie i haven't tried wet races as i don't want to spoil my illusion of the perfect sim, so ill wait for them to optimise/fix the rain. Its a really good sim, and i really think ISI should get this on steam.. my fav cars to drive at the mo, KARTS CIVIC MEGANE Can i ask is it really worth getting any mods, do any match ISI content?!
Yes to the first part of the question. The second part is looking at it from the wrong point of view, in my opinion. I can tell you the fidelity is high in some mods but not all features are either available or finalised, this is no different to ISI content. If you take away technology and focus entirely on feel and the experience, then yes there are mods that match or exceed ISI content. If you want recommendations, then I say try everything, you will never know if a car appeals or not until you drive it. The Osella PA20 is a car I normally wouldn't look twice at, but boy oh boy, the smile that put on my face. Top level developers include ASR/Apex Modding/URD/Mak Corp and you would be doing yourself a disservice by not spending half an hour in each of their cars. http://isiforums.net/f/forumdisplay.php/76-Vehicles
How can amateur? modders get the necessary data to make the model real? How can amateur? modders get the necessary tyre data? How can amateur? modders get the right engine data? its not all about getting the WOT hp and tq correct! Even ISI has to do numerous versions of the car to make it right (atleast I hope the cars are as they should be) In my mind its not worth it, so more ISI made content!
