What I believe to be wrong with the RF2 tire model / grip levels / lack of control

sure real cars allso have snap movments where the driver has to do a fast collect of the car but that is comparitevly rare and only happens due to bumps or some specific thing its not part of how the car drives all the time.

If the real cars drove like RF2 cars the grid would be dead before the end of the season.

 

OMG... you can demonstrate god exists! My video is't a slide collection... is a hotlap, with some fails trying to do that, isn't just slides for fun.

And I think I have no more to talk wiht you... I show you all you said we can't, or what is wrong, and you turn the tables. I still hope your videos, real car, doing things that NKPro can do, I have set my hand videos showing what I can do in the simulator that I play, but please, put identical cars and comparable as I have done .

Formula Renault spins at the end:

More:

PS: I can't find epic slides... with this cars. FR isn't very popular to find It easily, but GT1 yes, but the same, I can't. Most of them are little, or finish in crash.

More edits: for alonso fan... he can spin without epic sliding save, malasya qualyfing 2004

 

You are Totaly missing the point.

Its not about epic slides

I don't think you understand how a real car moves maybe you yourself cannot see in videos how they power out of corners and how they are often in small drifts and that the driver has a very good degree of control over this AGES before the back end starts sweeping out or the car gets unstable.

Evan when doing a hot lap and trying to achieve the fastest posable time a driver will be doing slight drifts as they power out of corners you can see this on lots of the corners evan in that video you linked during that race and this is something that RF2 cannot do properly.

In RF2 its a case of collect the rear or stop the slide ASAP because in rf2 if you are in any kind of slide however small you have a real lack of car control.

 

mm... Are you watched my video or replay? (replay is better) I think no, because microsliding exists, if you don't have eyes, good, but It still there

It is impossible to feel It like reality through the FFB, but through the telemetry, and making good eye, you can see It even in the FR3.5. It is possible in NKPro too... but is too gradual, you can cross de car and recover it in most of cases, something imposible in real life with this cars when you drive near limits. My perfect example is the epic drifting Osella, I haven't seen anybody in real life slide like in that video at high speeds near limits... when It occurs, we see a wrecked car.

I think the maths is the way to work with the sim, I hope ISI will not make a NKPro like other user said before. NKPro chose other way I don't like, trying to simulate "feels", I think they forget in the way many other things that happen when you exceed the limits. It feels good, but isn't accurate.

 

James I think your missing the point entirely and I highly doubt you have ever driven a real race setup car on slicks. I have and after spending a few days with RF2 the physics are very close to reality and though not perfect yet they are so far ahead of what NKP has that its not funny.

Esteva knows what hes talking about, go and get his setups for the GTR at Ohio ant Portugal and beat his lap times. No way will you get close to him without complete car control and being very on the edge, go get the GTR around Ohio in 1:15 and tell me you can do that without proper driving. I just got down to the 15s there but could run consistant 17s pretty easy with little micro slides all over the place.

At Portugal I did do 1:34 with his setup which is a couple seconds faster then he mentioned at race department where I got his setups but he did mention he only did a few laps there. I only did about 25 laps in a real V8 supercar a few years back but once I got up to speed and got some heat into the tyres the feelings were pretty close to what the GTR has in RF2.

The only real life car that handles anything like what you think that I have driven is a formula ford, this had an all weather racing tyre when I drove it and it was very much sliding all over the place. Completely different to a slick tyre on a race prepared car, these have no feel at all if your driving too slow but once you get heat into it they get tons of grip. I racing first version of the v8 supercar was a complete joke and nothing like the real thing with it sliding all over the place. Shane Van Gisbergan even told them that and worked with them making the NTM but I have never driven that version yet. If they got anywhere closer to reality it would be much closer to the GTR in RF2 then anything else in any sim to date.

Drive the FR3.5 at ohio and see what times you get, I can drive it pretty comfortably doing high low 1:09's but the to get to 1:06 your on the edge all lap. I think if your not doing those sort of laptimes your not getting close to the edge and thats where that feeling your looking for is. The cars arent hard to drive at all by the way and the main bug with tires I have noticed is that they tend to roll a bit too easy, Tim did post that they haven't implemented the tire walls properly yet and so they dont lose enough grip when completely on the edge but this only applies when on 2 wheels not regular driving.

James I recommend you go find a real race car with slick tires on a nice clean rubbered in track, do some laps pushing hard and you will notice the direction RF2 is heading is so much closer to reality then anything else so far. Just because you may like the feeling NKP does give you it doesn't mean its realistic as I see it much further away then RF2 and its one reason I never got into it too much. Kunos is completely re writing the code for tires and physics because he obviously thinks so too.

 

I actually just noticed I had FXAA still checked in Nvidia drivers even though I had it disabled in game its still doing something, it looks much better now. I will post some videos in the FR3.5 which are great fun but a little too quick at 120% for me still so I had to get the AI to 110%. Setup is i7 2700k @5ghz with H80 cooler, 32GB ram, win7 x64 gtx 480 SLI, and G25 wheel. I posted my G25 settings in the thread about FFB rattle if anyone wants to try them, I have in game FFB at 1.5 in the gtr no rattle, no lag, no wheel shake in a straight line and FFB is the best this wheel has ever given me. People having issues may have the wheel setup badly because when its good its very helpful, I can just about catch anything unless I got all locked up on entry which you can still catch at times but not always.

Now back on topic, I put that video here to show a basic race against AI at 120% laptimes probably 1:07s to 1:09s here in traffic. Its not perfect driving showing a few corrections here and there and even a mistake I made running into the marbles on the first lap where I got swamped by the AI lol. I have used Esteve's excellent setup for this track, he is a setup master for sure and as he can do 1:15s here he knows how to drive too.

This first proves that there is no lack of control as the thread title says and grip levels are pretty good for this type of racing. The closer a sim to gets to reality then the more realistically you have to drive, if you dont push hard enough the car will feel like crap and if you push too hard you will lose control. If you cook the rear tires you will have no chance of driving this thing, try do a burnout for a bit then drive ahead with rear tire temps at 300-400 lol.

James asked for videos and he hasn't posted any himself of lap times coming close to pushing the limits of these cars so I think he just doesn't have the ability to drive them properly, which is why he started this thread. Many have shown its easy enough to drive and close to the limits on good setups these things feel amazing.

 

Oh... some help, thanks martymoose! but I'm not a setup master hehe, there are much better players in RD or where I run habitually (a spanish community). I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought that the behavior of these cars is pretty true to life. Not perfect, obviously, but the most near I ever driven in the last 3 years that I've playing.

 

There is only a couple of people saying that its so terrible, I dont get James's point to be honest.

He says NKP is the best yet he is looking forward to Asseta Corsa, this is being completely re done from scratch so surely will be quite different to NKP. And if its so great I dont know why he wants another game/sim as it does all he wants, everyone is entitled to an opinion but why come to a forum and praise an old game that barely anyone is playing still for some reason.

He said he doesn't want this to become NKP and then gave a bunch of points he wants to see, the only credit he gave RF2 is the cars twitchines and all the other points were from NKP lol.

A race car will snap and bite you at any moment, the reason you dont see it if you haven't driven a real one is because those guys on tv are some of the best drivers in the world. Watch any onboard videos from real cars and I dont see any sideways driving in the types of cars we are talking about here.

Watch videos of rank amateurs trying to drive real race cars and that will give you an understanding of what a race car will be like with someone lacking skill or seat time in the car. Thats the level of many people here, some are more advanced but even a champion in another category will need seat time to get up to speed. Sure a good driver wont wreck the car because they will ease their way up to pace, the everyday guy if they try to push will end up in a wall pretty quickly.

Here is an onboard video with Marco Andretti at Mid Ohio with him talking through the lap. I dont hear any mention of getting it sideways at any point. Doesn't look much different to my laps in the FR3.5 and he needs a few quick corrections in the wheel to keep it going.

Here is a more recent onboard indycar lap in traffic, do you see the car sliding through the corners?

 

Didn't someone mention epic slides??? I looooooooooooooove epic slides. Enjoy:

 

More people comparing classes haven't something common? Oval cars in oval track... yes, It looks like F1 or GT1s in Mid Ohio, Road Atlanda, Spa, yes... the same turns and speeds with the same cars. I can't believe this.

 

I'm just sharing a video, not argumenting. No need to be aggressive.

 

Sorry, I had judged it like argumentation ... are already a few attempts to compare and argumenting with videos that have nothing to do with the cars we speak. Once we see oval cars in rFactor 2, I will consider your video .

Edit: that driver have steel balls :O epic hahaha

 

Epic Sliding in a high downforce Formula car on a grand prix circuit, I think this is the Asseta corsa test day

Not slicks though so I see how thats possible on those tires.

 

I personally think the problem with this thread is comparing old finished software (old technology)
to new software (new technology),i mean some of the guys here are talking as though rf2 is a finished
product and of course it isn't.

Perhaps when it is finished it might be worth comparing.

 

I know, feels3, is difficult to feel slides with GTR through FFB, but other guys says is "impossible" to do these slides. And if you learn the car you can do It despite the FFB, in certsain limits obviously, GT1 isn't a drift car...

PS: I must be weird, because I notice when I lose traction in this car, in a different way comparing to others, but I feel something that force me to do snap reactions.

 

Again you simply are not getting the point

Its not about getting into slides small or big its about how unstable the car is when its then in a slide state.

Any half decent driver can recover the slides in RF2.

The point is in real life slides are not a binary thing its simply another aspect of car movement and for the most part when the car is in this state it is still very controllable , to the point that you can drift for as long as you want to at multiple angles or decide not to drift. ( this is also possible in almost if not all cars even F1 cars because its a fundamental aspect of how tires and cars behave but its also something most simulators struggle with)

Granted F1 cars and faster cars are going to be far less willing to get to larger angles and will aproach instability far faster than heaver slower cars but its still possable.

GT cars and even cars like the Radical will still be very comfortable at small angles and powering out of corners with all 4 wheels in a lateral slide even if a small one.

You repeatedly saying the things you have demonstraits that you don't understand what we are talking about.

Again its not about simply catching the car and snap reacting the car around when it snaps out its about bieng able to subtly glide the car around corners if you want to , weather that be a full out drift or a minute drift that just happens to be the optimum way to lay down power in allot of situations.


sure sometimes snap situations happen in real cars and you have to snap react to it and sure this will happen more when you push more , but the vast majority of when the car starts to slide or get small angles the car should be very controllable and not require crazy snap counter steer and taking the foot off the gass.

You can see it in allot of the real life videos you post but i think you are just incapable of identifying it and are taking RF2's current physics implimtation to be your bench mark for what reality is.

Its going to blow some of your minds as RF2 , Iracing , Asseta Corsa , game stock car develop more and all move in the direction of having more progressive loss of grip and more control over the specifc angles and direction of the car when at the limits of grip.

So ether your right or all simulators currently on the market are going in the wrong direction.

 

It's the millionth time I read Asseta Corsa...

It is ASSETTO CORSA...

Thanks....

 

Jameswesty, every five pages of this thread... a different point of view, and all can be refused (or most of them) through videos, or showing you a replay, MoTeC logs... you are not consistent defending the begining idea, after every we discuss you change all. I'm still waiting something that you can't do with this cars in rFactor 2. Few pages back, you were demonstrating all with them, but now? It isn't valid? all you saying isn't go to change my idea (worst If you can't still in a point). I think you need to go play NKPro and stop arguing about this if you are so happy with It. While you're here trying to convince us rFactor 2 is so bad I'm still playing like a little happy kid with It, because when I play It, I feel good, I feel racing, and I feel I can control these cars without weird slides to be fast (only microsliding and some slides when you reach limits, or crash when you reach It too far).

Edit: feels3, I'm sure I'm not an alien. I only have a lot of laps of practice... but If someone of my community try to go fast, they would be faster than me. I think FFB in this car can improve, but I think the point is you can control It very well (how many laps should to have a real GT1 driver?)

Edit2: I think we are talking about you can do in rF2 comparing to reality or NKPro... not how It feels to force a reaction, I haven't my ass in a racing seat into a real car, I can't feel perfectly the car sliding, but you can do drift like in real cars (you move the car, you don't need feel It to be real moves), some cars more than others, if you learn to interpretate game outputs.