Tire model ( opinions )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by coops, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    haha, Miroslav in the yellow Viper :) Now you know why I decided to throw around my rear end instead of punishing my fronts to much - and why I have to run the harder compound :p

    Guess you are refering to this battle
     
  2. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    Oh yes, that was a hell of a race!

    But, writing here about thermal degradation and micro lockups :confused: and then watch how I fail this video and listen to the commentator: "Davidovic is way way way down the rankings, he shouldn't interfear in this battle. He is 36th!" :eek:

    So you probably shouldn't ineterpret to much in what I write here. :cool:
     
  3. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Because the rotational speed and load is lower at the inner tire, which rolls more on the inner edge, the heats up faster because of the effective surface, the is to low to compensate the friction and transmit the heat fast enough. Of course it is just the case when the outer tire has low slip.
     
  4. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    @Paul Loatmann

    Hi Paul, not sure if you missed this post or wasn't intrested, anyway here a reminder, no matter your decision, but i really would be pleased if you would like to test.

     
  5. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Thank you. Understand, yes the high end is not optimal, but because of the lack of power, no matter the setup, it's really because the t500rs drive generates to less torque, but with my settings i do have the feeling the increasing rate from zero is much better, as if the connection would match the physic well but the drive wouldn't be able to catch up the high end, what of course is clear to everybody i think, but it is more that it isn't fast enough around the high level area, the results in loosing the connection somewhat and get out of sync.

    Me do feel as if the t500rs drive would just need some torque more to be fast enough in response, because it dies on the high end in extrem situations, which of course are very important for fast reactions and counter action and such. It simply is not only to slow for the simulated car, it is also to slow for me in some scenario, where i convert to bruce lee. :D
     
  6. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Yes, you can see well at the start of the drive how fast it can be, while the steering seems quite calm over the whole bandwidth, but generates some cornering oscillation and absorbs some bump steer as well.

    Here another one which shows some cornering oscillation at this car, where i don't know if it is due to the general kinematics and geometry of the car or setup related, but anyway look how it waves and the drives has to deal the high level response while cornering.

     
  7. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Could be well the reason for yes, anyway it shows well the overall sensibilty of the cars steering system and maybe the overall charecteristic, and it seems not much stressfull for the driver but fast in it's response.
     
  8. Matt Sentell

    Matt Sentell Member

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    That's a great video that I hadn't found, thanks for posting. It's hard to find them in degrees C instead of F. You can see that in fact the temps are changing even more rapidly and across a wider range than we see in rF2's GT cars under normal conditions.

    @Tomas, as for the inner tyre heating up more than the outer, I just don't know what to say. I have hundreds of hours in the sim over the past 2 years, including all of last year's FSR season on the super-sensitive F1 tyres, and I've just never seen that happening unless there was at least slight locking of the inside tyre. Sometimes very slight locking is hard to detect in the closed-cockpit cars but you say you've examined it in Motec and that's not evident, so I just don't know what to offer without taking a closer look at it. See you at Sebring, I'll be sharing Miro's yellow Viper this time!:p
     
  9. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    The reason why i think the inner tire could rise up heat faster in some scenario i already mentioned but while i was riding some open wheeler the days i did realize the inner wheel deccel very fast under frywheeling while quite unloaded, what drives me to ask if that is normal when it looks itself by the little contact it has with the friction surface. The wheel behaves like a flywheel with low mass and rotational speed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2015
  10. Matt Sentell

    Matt Sentell Member

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    I've never noticed anything unusual or unnatural about a freewheeling wheel over the past few years but it's possible something has changed in recent builds. If the brakes are even lightly applied and the wheel is completely unloaded then of course it will decelerate very rapidly or even lock, but you probably realize that already and that's not what you're talking about. I'll keep an eye out for it.

    Edit: To be honest, this has always been something in rF2 that I've been extremely impressed with the fidelity of, particularly in replays. While the rest of the car (suspension) seems to not exhibit much fidelity in replays compared to some other sims, the individual wheels are kind of remarkable. In the F1 car for instance, when you get the relative roll stiffnesses in such a state where the inside front wheel is easily lifting during a cornering event, the way the wheel rotation is influenced by momentary ground contact, the way the tyre deforms as it bounces lightly off the track, etc. is all very impressive, especially in slow motion. I've never been anything less than impressed by the seeming realism of it and just wished that suspension travel exhibited a similar level of fidelity in replay.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2015
  11. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Hi Matt, sorry for the late reply, it was late in europe and me tired. The early morning i couldn'T find time to post until now.

    I agree with you and how the physic is interacting realistic, even what am i asking for is something logical for me, but i'm just not sure if the impact is correct.

    Let me try to explain more detailed, so you can judge it more accurate. It's quite simple to reproduce if you take the FISI2012 for a roll out, because it's the car i ride as last, and the one i think where it is obvious, while i mean the FR3_5_2014 would show it as well, but because i remember the FISI2012 the best, i like to use it as example.

    It is nothing special you have to do other than to ride it as ever i think. I used to ride Portugal with the open wheeler last where the first corner and other slow quite tight corners force the car to lift the inner tire more as desirable.

    Now what am i talking about is exactly how you get it, with the difference the brakes are released early enough and the car unloaded before entry the corner, what ofc is not the reason for the lockup of the inner wheel, otherwise i would understand it as normal, but in this case the quite unloaded wheel/tire locks up itself by the impact of friction laterally on the inner edge quite easy and fast as if it has absolute no rotational energy generated by the rotational speed and mass.

    I understand everything involved i think and that it is not a drive axle, but not only that it looks like weightless with no mass, it generates wear, heat and flat spots on the inner edge of the tire repeatedly by the spotty lateral friction, because the tire isn't rolling constantly, what ofc is normal in some scenario, but i do have the feeling that the level of efficiency is somwhat to strong.
     
  12. Birddogg66

    Birddogg66 Registered

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    No compound options!
     
  13. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    LOL, your "act" is getting ridiculous. If you actually played rF2 you'd know that there were various compounds on cars where the series allows it. I have no idea why some are allowed to spread such misinformation.
     
  14. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    ?????
     
  15. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    You don't want any compound options? Sorry, not realistic for many race series.

    You think there aren't compound options in rF2? Sorry, you're clueless as it depends on the race series whether there are options in rF2.
     
  16. coops

    coops Banned

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    1st league race on new tires in the FVR v8's was GREAT the load changes the temps the wear a big move frwd tyvm ISI.
    Now we need the option to select 2 tire changes as well as 4. TO ISI is the option coming soon ??????????????????????????????????
     
  17. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    All those sorts of pit options will have be well sorted and tested before the stock car content is released. Presumably not too far away...
     
  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Guys, as mentioned in another thread recently, mods can already select which and how tyres are changeable (each of 4, front and rear, left and right, all 4), and it's been this way since rF1.
     

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