Tire model ( opinions )

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by coops, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. Alejandro1

    Alejandro1 Registered

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    The temps must be the reason for the increased grip. The LCD display show very easy tire warming in the FISI.

    I wonder if the belt driven guys feel the vibration with the same intensity.
    If you flat spot the tires now, the G27 gives you away for everybody in the house :eek:
    Pretty fun.

    Also, after you flat spot the tires, now they keep going for like 13 laps with the FISI.
    Before, the front tires would not let you turn.
    Vibrating but hanging on.
     
  2. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    I'm afraid you guys are totally on placebo.

    I did 100 laps two days ago 910b and 100 laps today 930b at Indy RC, same car and got almost exactly same lap time averages. I can't see any difference in the car reactions.

    The crazy tyres peaks temperature are still there by the way.
     
  3. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    Only one aspect of the new batch of changes requires TGM changes and that is the wet related stuff. Everything else will be felt on all current content. But this isn't the entire new model. It's still a WIP.
     
  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    To be clear, the Skippy, F2 and FR3.5 all feel completely different to me (at least before 930...haven't tried that yet), as if they are not in the same sim. Three different programming or settings approaches from where I sit...almost as if ISI is experimenting with different techniques just as you suggested, but doing it with released cars. None of them feel like open-wheeled cars, but the historics and ASR open-wheeled cars do feel like open-wheelers. The closed-cockpit cars vary a bit, but all feel authentic out of the box. I was interested in your comment that the tin-tops were even better, but the open-wheelers unaffected. I would have preferred the reverse--for the F2, Skippy and FR3.5 to feel as good as the tin tops already did.

    Regardless, I am happy if progress is being made. Will read with entertainment the debates about whether anything has changed or is just placebo. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think ISI uses deliberately vague release notes to help gauge who from their audience of fanatics here can tell the difference in what they are doing (or maybe not doing!).
     
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Doesn't the bit about "Minor update to CPM invalidates previously-generated CPM data." suggest a rebuilt tyre will behave slightly differently?

    That's a genuine question... not really sure what it means... lol
     
  6. Jokeri

    Jokeri Registered

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    Flat spots feel better now and when the front wheels are in the air you can feel the unbalance in the steering wheel..
     
  7. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    Feel flatspots like never before with my G27. At classic spa in the BT20 I was getting a high frequency vibration. It's a right bugger, in a good way.
     
  8. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    +1
     
  9. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I sometimes wish I wasn't so passionate about rFactor 2 (thanks in large part to it's physics, FFB, and entire "RealWorld" system). I could spend the next 2 hours writing about what I love and hate, and still feel are issues with the current physics, FFB, and "RealWorld" system. I don't feel the need or the enthusiasm to share my thoughts/input on any other sim.

    The harsh criticism from me is only because I think RF2 and ISI are generally the best in the industry.

    Off-topic, I know, but I'm trying not to contribute to this thread with another huge post of mine regarding physics and FFB, lol.
     
  10. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    I noticed that tyre temps are slightly more managable now, but still not perfect - longer slides will still make surface temps go 200c+ though, but driving on grass won't anymore :D

    And the flat spot shaking at high speed in a light classic open wheeler is fantastic, in that annoying way! ;)

    Those who claim this is all placebo really need to plug in the power to their FFB or simply turn down their absurd smoothing values on their possibly sub-par wheels...
     
  11. Flaux

    Flaux Registered

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    The only thing I felt from the tires was more highspeed grip.
     
  12. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I tried several cars on several tracks yesterday, and while laptimes may remain the same if you already drive on the limit, and you maybe won't notice great differences, they are indeed there. I tried to mess a little with cambers and pressures, and they appear to reflect on tire temperature better than before. I made some laps at Nords with Howstons, and it seemed less deadly than before, less "bar soap of death" as I call them.
     
  13. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Aaaah, that placebo discussion again ------>popcorn lol

    (I´ve personally not tested enough yet to make a statement)
     
  14. traind

    traind Registered

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    Thanks again for leading the pack with your driving observations. I just downloaded and did a few, quick laps in the GT2 Corvette and the C6 ZR1. I fully agree the C6 feels very different. Rotation on cup tires seems slower to happen but when you really push it there is more snap oversteer possible then I remember--harder to catch. Also-- I agree there is more high speed understeer. The problem for me is that the FFB leading up to the point of oversteer seems significantly more vague until all of a sudden you are struggling to countersteer. I'm not sure... maybe the real c6 is like that? It isn't known as a paragon of handling feel.

    I felt less change with the GT2 Corvette than the C6. Perhaps I need more laps but first impression was the GT2 continues to feel great at the limit.
     
  15. MrWalton

    MrWalton Registered

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    The last time i make hundrets of laps on indy. after the patch my times are slower because the tyres have more"bite" in my feeling.
    I think i ve to rework my tyre pressure. The "Springeffect" is complete a other.
    With the e90 on Nordschleife i am a little faster then before because the tyres have more"bite" in my feeling. :)
    But here the same i have to rework my pressure.
     
  16. Matt Sentell

    Matt Sentell Member

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    Why do people think this is inaccurate (not the grass part, but on asphalt)? It's the second post I've seen in two days suggesting this. I know people don't have access to data about what happens when a tire goes into a full slide but if one accepts that the rapid rise in surface temperatures depicted in rF2 (and iRacing, btw) during normal driving is reasonably correct then why wouldn't putting the tire into a slide at 30, 60, 90 degrees to the direction of travel cause temperatures to go sky high? I mean where do people think that smoke comes from? It isn't the air turning to dust, it's the tire. It's flash heating and vaporizing, turning into dust. That requires some fairly high temperatures.

    I've been away from the community for a bit so maybe there's still doubt about whether the surface temperatures change so rapidly on a real tire, but all you need to do is search Youtube for "racing tire real time temperatures." Unfortunately I've never found one that's instrumented when the driver loses control, but it isn't difficult to infer what would happen. For instance these show temps while cornering within the tires' optimal slip range, which is between say 5 and 12 degrees:



     
  17. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Traind, in-terms of the rear and feeling that through FFB, try Paul Loatman's settings, I feel they are more natural in terms of feel - which in-turn directly affects your driving/inputs - than the default settings. In-fact, sometimes I feel like I'm forcefully driving "through"/against the FFB when it comes to some oversteer moments with the default settings - almost as if the FFB (regarding rear-rotation and me correcting that) sometimes can't keep up with the actual physics themself. With Paul's settings though, I don't really experience this FFB-specific rear issue.
     
  18. gpfan

    gpfan Registered

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    This is the most obvious video i know and as you can see the temps are high on turns, the simulation is reproducing very well the real behavior of a racing tire!!!!

     
  19. traind

    traind Registered

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    His FFB settings or car set up? Where would I find those settings?

    Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2
     
  20. Nazirull Safry Paijo

    Nazirull Safry Paijo Registered

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    Is the tire changes is immediate or modders or isi hafta update the car first?

    Flat spots r permanent now...last time it tends to go off after few turns. Tried it with the brabhams
     

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