The true BMW M2 CS is in ACC

[Lazza]

I posted several weeks ago a post about the wrong sound of the bmw m2 cs and I said if the sound is not correctly simulated what about the other parts.

It seems that acc is giving me reason here.

What must we think about rf2 then guys in terms of simulation.

You started a new thread despite saying basically this already, so what's new? Are there physics differences you think support your suggestion/question that the different engine sound is indicative of the whole car being inaccurate in rF2?

 

[nolive721]

Hello

Control Manager for AC is the all in one solution that made this Game reaching that huge popularity in recent years
The easiness of adding content and the amount of straight forward functionalities that it brought is second to none

in regards to quality of the cars details in RF2 being lower because of hundreds of them available I think it’s fair to say that ISI and S397 real content is somehow comparable to ACC so I don’t think it’s a valid argument tbh

All the rest are mods with quality that varies a lot for sure

ok

I am an early ACC beta backer but hadn't bought much DLC since. Decided to give this "pack" a try.

if we talk about the M2 only, its aesthetically superb, no denial and it looks really good on my UW 1440p monitor for both interior and exterior.

but the FFB is plain dull to me. car feels like its driving on Ice actually, no feel of steering getting light under sharp cornering, no feel of tire slipping in the wheel, the car weight is not perceptible as much as my memories of ACC FB with other cars is.

I will do some more back to back testing but honestly disappointed

the car in RF2 feels quite of the opposite with steering getting too much light in sharp cornering but the overall driving experience for me is better than in ACC

my 2p of course

 

[adi rany]

You started a new thread despite saying basically this already, so what's new? Are there physics differences you think support your suggestion/question that the different engine sound is indicative of the whole car being inaccurate in rF2?

If you find that putting the engine sound of a car on another car is not a serious problem, then can anyone please close this thread. A modder can do that but a developer who work in close collaboration with the manufacturer can not .

And when you begin cheating there is no end.

 

[atomed]

You're using one good argument against a whole set of characteristics. I agree it's cheating on the sound side, but taking one aspect of the car to the extreme of the whole car being wrong makes no sense.

 

[hitm4k3r]

Hello

Control Manager for AC is the all in one solution that made this Game reaching that huge popularity in recent years
The easiness of adding content and the amount of straight forward functionalities that it brought is second to none

in regards to quality of the cars details in RF2 being lower because of hundreds of them available I think it’s fair to say that ISI and S397 real content is somehow comparable to ACC so I don’t think it’s a valid argument tbh

All the rest are mods with quality that varies a lot for sure

I am not really sure if it is content manager alone. I guess it's the gerneral ease to add 3rd party content wich made the game really successfull and the big amount of lisenced high quality cars and tracks. There are tons of high quality 3rd party cars and tracks and the amount of payed content is pretty astonishing (VRC, URD, RSS). In theory, you don't really need CM and from my perspective it's a pretty convoluted software that has it's own problems. On my end for example CM is quite a bit buggy. Also don't forget that the game is very cheap. When you buy the Ulitmate Edition you get tons of content for under ten Euro. It's no suprise that people pick it up.

Anyway, this discussion is about the M2. I still wonder why people don't understand that the car was pretty much a aprototype when it was released for rF2. So ofcourse the sound could be different. Physics related data was most likely not avaialble at that time aswell. An update would have been nice but you can't develop everything at once obviously.

 

[nolive721]

You are right i should not have digressed on AC in my specific comments about the M2

I was driving the car again today, did you you people noticed its listed as a V6 where the engine on this car is actually an I6?

Obviously those 2 different engine architecture don't sound the same

 

[Travis]

ACC fans say the Kunos recreation is the best whilst rF2 fans argue the S397 recreation of the BMW is the best. Somewhere in the middle is the truth.

Unless we have a real world driver of a BMW M2 CS providing feedback on both sims, everything is simply conjecture and subjective feedback.

 

[SuperMonaco_GP]

Kunos used an established AAA engine while S397 has rewritten big parts of rF2

that is just not true.
Kunos built their own engine with AC1, and adapted UE4 to be used for simracing later.
S397 literally put their hands on an already existing engine and just produced content on it.
also, isn't AC THE most modded and pure sandbox sim out there?
rF2 was, is and will forever be a testament to the potential of its engine, a "what if" that will never be able to show its true value no matter how the studio works on it. and the pace at which S397 works to fix bugs and polish the game is beyond unacceptable within the modern videogames industry.

 

[FAlonso]

I thought there would be no discussion about the pace of work, the unreal engine facilitates development in some areas, but it is ridiculous to believe that building a totally new game on this engine is less work than making a few slight modifications to the graphics and the model tire, along with an alpha interface.

 

[guenther]

Guide for a classical thread on forum.studio-397.com:

1. Choose an arbitrary topic, but mention that another sim does it better
2. Wait for the magic to happen
3. voilà! We have another engine discussion!
4. Wait for the thread to get 20 pages
5. Choose another arbitary topic and repeat 1.

Bonus Points: UI is mentioned.

 

[atomed]

Guide for a classical thread on forum.studio-397.com:

1. Choose an arbitrary topic, but mention that another sim does it better
2. Wait for the magic to happen
3. voilà! We have another engine discussion!
4. Wait for the thread to get 20 pages
5. Choose another arbitary topic and repeat 1.

Bonus Points: UI is mentioned.

I prefer another Sim but I have to come here to firmly acknowledge it.

 

[adi rany]

Guys, this thread is about the bmw in rf2.

We know for sure that it is inaccurate, that it is wrong (just listen to it). Can we accept this or s397 must apologize on it and correct it.

Another question guys but I am waiting from you an honest answer:

Can you drive or race an official paid car that has the sound of another car (which is probably a mod for rf2).

 

[L0P3X]

Guys, this thread is about the bmw in rf2.

We know for sure that it is inaccurate, that it is wrong (just listen to it). Can we accept this or s397 must apologize on it and correct it.

Another question guys but I am waiting from you an honest answer:

Can you drive or race a car that has the sound of another car.

Probably 90% or even more of the people here can drive with the wrong sounds (And that's doesn't mean that they want/don't want to have it corrected)

It's not a game breaking issue

 

[davehenrie]

Guys, this thread is about the bmw in rf2.

We know for sure that it is inaccurate, that it is wrong (just listen to it). Can we accept this or s397 must apologize on it and correct it.

Another question guys but I am waiting from you an honest answer:

Can you drive or race a car that has the sound of another car.

Many of the cars in the rF2 stable(both official cars & especially mods) have alternate sounds. So...if we are racing rF2, then we are ignoring the inaccurate sounds. Kinda like the arguments we had about trees and the shade of blue in the sky, the feel of the wheel overides many of the items that deter others. Remember, the DLC cars have to be licensed and the manufacturer has to agree before the car can be released. (just reminded me...BMW got caught a few years ago with a speaker in the engine bay of some of it's production cars to make the engine sound more butch)((is THAT inaccurate?))

 

[hitm4k3r]

I thought there would be no discussion about the pace of work, the unreal engine facilitates development in some areas, but it is ridiculous to believe that building a totally new game on this engine is less work than making a few slight modifications to the graphics and the model tire, along with an alpha interface.

I think you guys are simply twisting some facts to make your favorite developer appear more efficient/better/faster/more passionate than they really are. There are no idiots in sim racing industry that's for sure. I got to tell you, I have my own share of beef on how things have been prioritized in the past when it comes to development desicions and focus for rF2, but what in hell makes you believe that S397 only made some "slight modifications" while Kunos are super heroes? S397 rewrote the complete graphics pipeline and back end, implemented the CS and a new UI technology. There have been tons of updates, new features and content that aren't slight modifications. I think many people completely underestimate core development of inhouse engines with modding support. And in that regard, UE is certainly more straight forward while developing a closed and very focused product than implementing each piece of your own core engine while having to worry about 3rd party content, hundreds of different technologies that are available in the different types of cars within rF2. There is no P2P, DRS, Kers, SC, BBW system needed in ACC. AKA time to work on something else that benefits GT3 or GT4 cars. The whole development pipeline is build in UE that allows very efficient workflows. Remember that rF2 was developed in a completely different way that is very far off from what it does now.

The whole graphics technology that S397 developed, with physics based rendering, screen space reflections, shadow systems that are still WIP, particles, HDR, PP etc etc. That stuff is there in UE from the get go and you can focus easily on other areas allready. VR support, multy platform support, UI, UX. I don't know if some of you guys have actually worked with UE, but reading some comments here I have the feeling that some of you never even worked with the UDK let alone any other game engine. The fact that people try to tell me that Kunos wrote their own engine for ACC speaks for itself. They used UE4, a multi puprose game engine build by Epic Games by hundreds of developers with crazy budgets, an engine that is designed to easily plugin custom engines where needed and with a huge selections of technology that is available on the market place. And that we are still discussing why focused and closed sims allow faster development cycles, makes me realize that my explainations are in vain anyway as soon as people see "their" developer not getting the hype that they deem necessary. And don't get me wrong. I acknowldege the success and focus that Kunos shows, but it's pretty clear for me where they have big advantages with ACC, aswell as obstacles that are preset by using an engine that is not inhouse.

 

[FAlonso]

So you think s397 could have created a new rF3 using Unreal Engine? I think it would have been much more productive than an interface and a little graphical improvement but obviously I know that this would not have been possible in a short period of time.

In the past we got more than 100 cars, of different classes and with different technologies in AC, the pace of work was still very fast.

 

[hitm4k3r]

So you think s397 could have created a new rF3 using Unreal Engine? I think it would have been much more productive than an interface and a little graphical improvement but obviously I know that this would not have been possible in a short period of time.

In the past we got more than 100 cars, of different classes and with different technologies in AC, the pace of work was still very fast.

Did you even read what I explained? You can twist and turn it as much as you like, S397 didn't go your prefered route for obvious reasons and what you call little improvements is a bucketload of work. I have no idea where people are pulling their judgements from considering that very few have some in depth knowledge of the required development processes. I also don't know why you insist on the fact that rF3 using UE4 might have been the best way to go. rFactor never has been a franchize to focus on one single discipline of racing and it allways has been designed as a sandbox, so that contradicts with the way ACC was designed. I am not sure if you are aware of it but the studio considered UE for rF2 and decided against it for several reasons. ACC is on the extreme opposite of the spectrum. In the past we got a sim like AC1 with hundreds of cars because it's a pretty simplified product with alot of short cuts ranging from the physics models that are used to the whole spectrum of rules, weather system. I am talking about vanilla AC here. That people hacked the engine and added some stuff on top of it, that kind of semi works and actually makes AC in some aspects a complete mess, is often completely ignored.

Anyway, you are in deep believe that Kunos are top of the line when it comes when it comes to developing games while S397 are complete idiots who work on snails pace and simply change a few lines of code here and there and release mods every now and then. So be it if it makes you feel better. Hopefully you don't find out that developers are shared every now and then between the studios.

 

[FAlonso]

At no time do I say that s397 are idiots, it is obvious that they are professionals. But the development of rF2 is very slow, I never imagined that there will be a discussion with this, I think that in general there is consensus on this, there may be a thousand reasons but the development is slow. You know how Kunos works, after a major update the following weeks are full of small fixes, bugs are reported by players and the team fixes them in no time.

 

[FERNANDO CABRERA]

Actually, building a physical model of anything to a certain level of realism is extremely complex and difficult... Even in the old gmotor1 engine where some developers use massive spreadsheets to ease the process is was never as fast as you hopes to be and a working model can take months to have it drivable.
Your position regarding the S397 developers been lazy is unrespectful, and also I don't think that kunos have it easier either. Both are fine jobs of creating a virtual model of a physical objet in their respective engine.
I have created some tracks for Rfactor2 and have start charging for my latest work, I what I have learnt is to simply to appreciate the massive work and quality .. and time the developer spend creating all those dlc.
You like ACC bmw model then fine, drive it in ACC, if you like the Rfactor2 one then drive it in Rfactor2... If none of the models convince you then create your own mod of the car for you simulator of choice (sorry ACC is a close sim engine)