Hi, after some laps in the new Marussia and making some Setup changes that really improved the handling I started asking myself how the guys at ISI define the standard setup. Because all the Cars ISI gave to us are great, but all of them are extremely hard to drive without any changes, because all cars use every small situation to step their back out and spin, if your not driving it perfectly. For example with the Marussia I was all over the place. When I drive it in standard setup it looks just like they were driving it today in Q3. Besides they had rain and I'm driving in the dry... Just some minor changes (less rear wing, soften rear arb and locking up the diff some more, and putting the break balance more to the front) I got a much more stable and faster car. And that got me off 5s a lap in Sepang. My laptimes are still very slow, but at least I got a feeling for the car and it doesn't try to crash all the time. And all the other cars are very similar. They always try to spin, but just minor setup changes make them more stable and drivable. But why is that like this? In my opinion a standard setup should be made for best drivability on most tracks. Not necessarily the fastest possible setup, but a setup that makes the car more forgiving and more stable under the usual condition. That would good point to start finding a racing line and a setup for a specific track. I think this is making rF2 harder to drive than it is, just because the cars setup is messed up! What do you think?
It's not often that I find fault with ISI's methods...but I have to agree with your point. When I jump into the simulated race car, I want it to handle as well as or better (at default settings) than my own daily driver. I then want to go on to 'unlock' that last bit of potential only through setups. While my car has a very nicely tuned suspension and braking system, it is not a purpose-built race car. Too often, the default setups are like taking the car out on track with three wheels and half of a suspension...while trying to complete it there. I do not want to have a race-tuned Megane spinning in a low-speed corner at 30 mph. That simply does not happen...regardless of how cold the tires are. While this instability may be included to broaden the list of potential customers (who see a stable car as boring)...I'd much prefer to see a dual tier option wherein we could choose true default settings or casual setups.
I've always used the stock setups, with some very misguided minor tweaks XD So that basically leads me back to the stock setup, where I just drive the damn thing as fast as it'll go. For most, it's a personal thing. Finding a setup to be perfectly neutral feeling to every driver would be impossible. A car that feels a bit more sluggish but steady at the front might work fine for one guy, whereas the other guy is looking for something light on it's feet, dancing around and easily controllable. Some people will fuss over each little setting, thats what they need to do to feel comfy. Others will set the fuel and brakes, make sure it has either slicks or wets on (depends on weather...XD) and then go for it. It's also hard to have a setup that can work over many tracks, obviously. The rear wing setting on the Megane has a massive influence on driveability and also laptimes IMO. On a fast track, you would want to drop it a couple of notches. from stock. You can find some pretty big gains with just one setting like that. On others, you may very well want to increase it so you have a bit more stability.
@Minibull: I think you did not quite get my point in this. Of course there are different types of drivers and everyone has another way he wants a car to behave. An d of course ther is no setup that fits every track. To be honest, in rF1 I also used the standard setup most of the time, but in rF2 all the cars have a standard setup, that is just extremely unstable at the rear. I have the feeling the setups of all the cars have one thing in common. They tend to understeer and then instantly swap to oversteer. But in my opinion a standard setup has to set the car up to be rather neutral and stable through most corners. That way you can take the car out and have a go for some laps. If you have the feeling or the know how to get faster laptimes on certain tracks, or if you like the back of the car to snap out in some situations you can set it up if you want. But I think a lot of those discussion here like: "skippy is a spinfest" or " this is like driving on ice" or "real cars are far more forgiving" or "..." are mostly down to those standard setups, that really are herd to control. Why does the Marussia have the differential almost open? Just appliing more locking does stabilize the car extremely! Why do all of the cars have the brake balance set to overbrake? Just set the brake 5% more to the front and ther would be less spins. If you have the feeling you loose time under braking you can still set it more to the back, but the standard would be a car that i easier to drive...
From what I have heard, the default setups on many rFactor2 cars are what teams/cars have provided ISI as a recommended base. The problem is not the default setups, it's that they don't work in practise, in the simulator. For example, there is no way of setting laptimes such as 1:38 at Sepang with the Marussia, using the default setup. I have witnessed the same problem on most of the cars in rFactor as well as rFactor2 when driving in online leagues. In both rF1 and rF2, it's almost always necessary to use very soft rear springs. Same goes for rear anti-roll bars. With the Marussia for example, the traction out of slow corners improves tremendously once you put rear springs and rear anti-roll bars to minimum.
It depends on a car you drive. Some are that stable on default setup that minor tweaking is needed just to gain these last tenths. Marussia is the most extreme of them all (and I think it should be like that. As we know slightest change in temperature in RL can change a flinstone's car into spaceship. 4 degrees more? Kaboom. You car transforms from oversteer to understeer). I find GTR to be well balanced out from the box. Setup changes are there just to get even more performance from it not to tame it. Same with 370z (even more because of the feel you get on your steering wheel and it's less powerful car). Vette on the other hand is quite handful on default setup for a rookie. Once you get your setup sorted out it can become handy. Once you gain experience even default becomes managable but what would you want to complicate your life. It's not the matter of poor default setups (not all of them are), it's more a problem of people not getting how to setup their cars. Ofc there are many ways to skin a cat but still I witnessed many guys going in totally wrong direction with their setups and couldn't understand why. It's this lack of knowlage and ability to feel what's needed to improve the car that they're driving at the moment is what's hurting some people the most. Some guys just open setup sheet, cover their eyes and click random stuff and drive out and if it feels somewhat better they go in that diraction but if they get it wrong from the begining they may be wandering lost for a long time.
The problem is that your setup will only match your style and not the others. The ISI physics department is creating a very neutral setup, very close or matching real world setups. Every driver needs his own adjustments, they will never be able to make it work for everyone. My setups are pretty close to default and i can do very good laptimes with it.
Also some tracks require very different setups but of course in general very good setup is good everywhere - for a particular driver as you said. EDIT: Forgot to mention different track conditions for example heavy rain vs dry and so on...
The problem I have is that when compared to RF1, RF2 isnt nearly as 'pick up and play' as RF1 was. You could drive anything in RF1 fast and relatively stable out of the gate, but getting the best out of the car meant going to the setup screen and learning, testing and adjusting. RF2 by contrast, I cant drive some of the cars without spinning, having no stability or traction, let alone completing laps or being fast. Many people like me just dont have the time to sit down for hours on end and set up a car to be stable and fast, and this is something i see repeated on other forums. People saying they bought the BETA, the cars were 'awful' and went back to other sims. My point is, ISI really need to sort out the setups of the stock content because you are loosing all but the hardcore simmers very quickly.
Different cars are not going to handle how you want them to handle. They will handle how they handle. I would suggest experimenting with driving aids, if the text above isn't something I am misunderstanding. Most of the time we give an accurate race setup from a team. But considering the difference in setup between teammates in the same car, it's important to note that a setup isn't going to work for everyone. The important thing to note is that the setup we provide does work, maybe just not for you.
