So hows AC for you?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    4
    Lotus 49 was changed (improved) a lot in last update.


    @Spinneli
    So many words, so many sentences, but I still prefer to trust a guy who drives 2-11 on regular basis.
     
  2. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    42
    Does it hold to a candle to Historics but ? :)

    I don't know what to make of threads like this at competing developers.

    I told everyone the minute I saw that first video of the Lotus and Watkins Glen that pCARS "turned in too easy".

    Experts dropped on me, how would you know from just looking at it ?

    Some time later I saw the rF2 Monaco I said if they are the F3 and F2 I can't wait to see the F1.

    Oh gee I was right again yes ? and that never took pages of in depth discussion either. hehehe ;)

    I had no bias I had not tried either one so how could I.

    You would never see the guys that did the physics in these sims trying to take points of each other.
    Neither do we see modders or track builders doing it, why do we as fellow drivers tear strips off each other ?


    20 drivers in BT20 Monza .... no 2 experiences the same.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2013
  3. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    9
    you lost your hat...

    [​IMG]
     
  4. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    4
    @DurgeDriven
    "Does it hold to a candle to Historics but ?"

    What does this even mean?
    TBH most of the time I don't have any idea what you're talking about. Your posts to me are so messed up and confusing.
     
  5. F2Chump

    F2Chump Registered

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    7
    GTR2 drives beautifully with a wheel, but has minimal if any weight transfer and ARCADE rear grip vs GTR1's excess rear oversteer/snap spin.

    When I drive GSC Camaro, I can induce a break in rear traction going thru corners and can play/dance with the rear...I can do this as I'm aware of racing line, braking points, change of direction, and modulating throttle inputs, however, this behaviour seems absent from AC other than as sound bites, but then again, most cars feel like TC is always on no matter whether u disable it or not.

    Empty Box seems to think that PERCEPTION overules OBJECTIVE facts/car behaviour......he seems to think that the noise on the www determines what is or isn't realistic or credible as a sim.

    Empty Box sounds like someone who could legitimize the terrible physics and FFB of Pcars if given a chance.
     
  6. Domi

    Domi Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    44
    I don't know if Empty Box thinks that perception overrules objective facts, but certainly you are an example, when you say thinks like "GTR2 has minimal if any weight transfer", when all sims have that thing properly modeled (basically because it's something very easy to calculate, and for sure ISI engines do it well). Weight transfer must be one of the biggest myths of simracing, lol.
     
  7. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    54
    Really though who cares what they think? They are just two guys with an opinion, Empty box i respect as a racer, watch his iRacing races even though i'm not a fan of the sim but the rant videos are a turn off. This is what is wrong with sim racing right now, too many are obsessed with what others are doing and picking at WIP software. I don't agree with them btw. Both rF2 and AC are equal IMO both have stuff better than the other and vice versa, both are heavily WIP. This thread is becoming like VirtualR and AC fans and rF2 fans alike are becoming ever more like the pCARS crowd.

    Just be thankful you have the 2 sims right now. And for guys that like to place all their eggs in one basket like the guy that said AC is 10 years ahead of other sims then i really don't get why you are still on here every day posting, how anyone can take someone who posts crap like that serious is beyond me

    I don't care i like them both and want them both to succeed but GSC2013 is the best "finished" sim available right now IMO, feels better than both AC and rF2, both have a while to go yet to match GSC's fidelity to physics
     
  8. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    14
    If you Play AC or RF2 with a servo wheel and you end up with the steering looking far more like a real race car , If you are really pushing for laps in AC and are on the limit or set the car up as such then you start to get more of these high frequency balance moments , maybe some people simply don't push hard enough in AC because they are so used to RF2 and the driving style that requires.

    Also to be clear the FAbarth is certainly ridiculously planted but then its also ridiculously planted in many real world videos when its sunny and the car is presumably set up for drivers with minimal track time.

    You also have real world drivers posting direct comparisons with AC with them themselves saying AC is good representation with them then posting a video of them doing real world driving in the same car on the same track so even if someone was to think AC was arcade then they are going to have to think to some level that real world cars are "arcade"

    Non the less you can own and drive all the simulators for such little cost and they are often more fun than other games on the market regardless of which one happens to seem more realistic than the other.

    You can probably even develop fundamental race craft skills in games as shallow as GT6 or forza and if you hepend to get the money to go to the real world + you happened to also have some legitimate talent/were not overwhelmed by the vibrations and speed , you would soon utilise all the extra feel to your advantage and likely time in the real car would soon out do the benefit that a deeper simulator would give.

    To be honest unless RF2 gains more traction in its multi-player and AC has decent net-code and server set-up then its all moot anyway , no good having awesome physics if its not practical to actually drive against other people with them.

    Guess RF2 has its AI but any driver I know that's raced in a league or has done a reasonable amount of racing in i racing or RF1 over the years finds it hard to get enjoyment from AI

    In the end everyone knows that , Intel is better than AMD , Nvidea better than ATI,Cannon better than Nikon , Dream-cast better than PS2 , PS1 better than N64, cheese cake better than sponge cake.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2013
  9. tjc

    tjc Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,825
    Likes Received:
    319
    Interesting to hear/read your opinion on things Nismo... yours is an opinion I respect.

    I commented on a couple of your AC videos but I`m not sure if you noticed them or not, good stuff though.

    As you may have read a few posts back, I just got AC and have only done a small amount of laps in one or two cars so far so can`t really comment on anything but the little I`ve done I quite enjoyed. Much more testing needed though...

    On a slight side note (and a little OT) I take it you`d recommend GSC then? Crimbo`s coming up and all that so just asking. :)
     
  10. speed1

    speed1 Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    @Jameswesty

    Are you guys never asked yourselfs why that happens more frequently with AC than any other current sim since they are public.

    Very intresting where all those real driver are growing and the more intresting where they all where before ? Is AC the first software published as sim why it gets there attention.

    Cmon people.
     
  11. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    54
    Most definitely mate yes, GSC in comparison to the other two WIP discussed sims here feels like a polished complete sim. Something also that always sits right with me and Neils physics, any car that he has touched just always feels right and how you expect. It's a pleasure to drive for me and has the balance that both rF2 and AC both lack at the moment. It has great low speed grip behaviour, something rF2 is struggling with for me even now with a T500, same issue i have always had and believable high end grip, doesn't feels excessive like some race cars in AC. It has the perfect balance of both.

    So yes mate cheap as chips and a great feeling simulation, get it.

    I personally really hate sim racing right now, it's tuned to **** for me, lost it's essance. So sick of reading sim racing sites and the same bull**** arguments and the same annoying people posting the same crap over and over and copy and pasting to each forum and on the flip side the devs themsleves for whatever sim all get along like mature adults. I really despise it right now. I miss club racing and stuff now, but nothing is complete enough to use right now, feels really stale.

    GSC is complete and ripe for this type of racing but nobody seems to give a **** about it because it's not DX11 and not supporting the latest blah blah. I play more shooters these days than race.

    Btw last post was not a dig at Empty Box, i like this guy alot and respect and hope to race him one day, he was just one of the guys mentioned. I don't however like attention seekers, post for reactions or people that follow something just because it's flavour or the month like the other guy mentioned behaves.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2013
  12. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,302
    Likes Received:
    7
    My club www.phoenixracingclub.com runs a league on Weds nights with GSC 2013 and we have a very knowledgeable member in our community who can help anyone with Rieza stuff. We also run AC hotlap competition and rF2 leagues on Saturday nights.
    Sorry for the blatant advert but some clubs do support GSC/AC/rF2 and more :)
     
  13. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

    Joined:
    May 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,448
    Likes Received:
    976
    I've held out on gsc2013 -it looks super though, I'll be purchasing their next release & it's going to be on their own software engine ( not sure when it will be released though )
     
  14. Domi

    Domi Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    44
    And I stand that in some aspects AC is 10 years ahead of rF2, graphics, performance and UI wise, for sure. Those are aspects of a game that I also rate, and in my computer rF2 visuals are really bad (either bad quality and acceptable performance, or the opposite). There is also no relationship between that comment and the interest in the game; rF1 is also very old, and I still use it almost dialy.

    Take a breath, we all know you are a super important simracing character but there is no need to define someone's opinion as crap because you are heavily against.

    I agree on the GSC comment, go for it!
     
  15. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    6,320
    Likes Received:
    42

    Yeah you right all too smart for me, I speak pigeon English.

    " Can't hold a candle to it " ..... means is it as good ( you could Google it )

    Dazed and confuse hey ...why are you antagonizing me then ? I even asked with a smile all you have is smart arse comments.

    Just go about your business if you can't understand me. ffs
     
  16. speed1

    speed1 Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,858
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's nice and something everybody should do, not to eliminate the already very little fanbase of simracing by kid wars. The mistake of people is to get every tiny bit of a critic as an attack. We are all on the same side but still to far away. The fanbase makes the product strong but not by flamming all over the place, the more when discussing things in a competitor forum. That is not good. Yes i myself put little things in and contribute to it anyway but still with a great respect and attention on my words.

    I didn't know the internet forums before i participate with the SMS project as it starts and i did many mistakes, sure still doing some but one thing i learned is, that people behave like kids when it comes down to critics on there lovely game and there is no way to explain people it is well intended because it doesn't looks like that for those.

    I learned from it and keep myself back but one thing is certain what i'll say as a professional master technician is, none is perfect and i can understand why but as long as this is so any criticism should be welcome, at least for the sake of improvements. No one of us will ever know who is the guy with the nickname xxxxxxx. It could be everyone possible with every possible profession one comes in mind.
     
  17. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    29
    I have raced/lapped F1600s, F2000s, and had a 2 day open cockpit prototype test. I have done over 1000 laps in F2000s (literally), I worked at a racing school almost everyday for around a year. I even did a bit of on track instructing to some very fast up and coming karters. So I don't know it all, and my experience is a joke compared to an actual professional racecar driver of high caliber, but it's still more experience than probably 90% of other people out there and I believe it should atleast count for atleast something. Not everyone has to agree with me either, but it should count for something when experience of this shared love of ours is pretty rare.

    James, it's not all irrelevant unless you have real world drivers to drive against, I completely disagree. Taking a car to it's limits and spending hours and hours, days and days working on your feel and technique on how to get those last couple seconds, and then those last tenths, and pushing more and more when you were convinced there was no time left, but trying tiny little subtle different things with the steering/throttle/brakes yeilds a half tenth here, a half tenth there (especially in a highly dynamic physics engine) is amazing to some people. It's about pushing yourself and the car around that track more and more for the ultimate lap time. I have barely been online, or even offline races, in 2 years. Some people really like to seriously focus on extracting the absolute maximum from the car's potential and their skills (however low or high they may be) and figuring out ways to improve even more than they ever thought as they improve more and more on taking the car, as well as themselves, to higher and higher limits. It's this "you and the car vs that damn track" mentality that many people love. Of course everyone loves "you and the car vs the track & 25 other drivers" lol but the driving satisfaction and longevity is still IMMENSE to some people even with just them and their car vs the track..

    GSC is my favorite overall product as well. I don't agree with Empty Box on it being less fidelic/dynamic (can't remember the exact word used) than AC. I can have my car behaviour changing constantly and seemingly much more dynamically, with regards to all the tiny different inputs I use from corner to corner, lap to lap, etc., in GSC than AC. Same with any pc sim really, compared to AC.

    Game Stock Car cars feel wooden at best??...Really Empty Box? You're serious?......

    About GSC being RF1 without any of the RF1 negative physics tendancies....GSC is still RF1 based, and can still exhibit some typical RF1 stuff that most agree is flawed. If people cannot see this in GSC, than they might not be understanding/experiencing/analysing physics/vehicle beahaviour as deeply as they might think they are, because you can still get RF1 traits in every single RF1 car made in history, regardless of mod. There are things in the core physics/tyre EXE program that a modder has no access to. GSC is my favorite overall sim at the moment, Niels is AMAZING, but if anyone thinks GSC fixed/removed typical RF1 negative physics tendancies than I question their analysation skills on vehicle dynamics, as RF1 negative physics traits are all still there, just very "massaged"/hidden/moved away from the spotlight, due to Niels' amazing work :)

    Some people with the right FFB settings think Project Cars is amazing, so you can't go by perception. You're perception of physics can MASSIVLY change, for example, for a car in RFactor 1, depending on all the differemt FFB lines you can edit, let alone throwing RealFeel and Leo's FFB in the mix, the physics can SEEM completely differentl but obviously the physics havent changed, it's just the human's perception of the physics/handling that have changed due to different FFB. This is what can blind people and make some sims SEEM even better than they are, and other sims seem worse than they really are. This is, imho, the completely wrong way to look at it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2013
  18. tjc

    tjc Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2012
    Messages:
    5,825
    Likes Received:
    319
    Excellent... thanks mate.

    I hear what your saying about sim racing etc too. A lot of bitching and whining in the sim forums.

    One of the only places that doesn`t seem to have this is good old SRMZ. Mostly things are discussed in a more friendly way there...
     
  19. thuGG

    thuGG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    4
    I didn't ignore you because you specifically asked me a question. Normally I just ignore your posts.

    Getting back to Lotus 49, before the update this car was just underseery log, the understeer was horrible and I just didn't like the car, didn't drive it too much. After the update it there is still a bit of understeer at turn in, but it's easily corrected and I can balance it the way I want it and it responds the way I expect. It feels right.

    Comparing to rF2, well the historic formula cars in my opinion are the best part of rF2 and I like them a lot. I think in many ways they feel similar, but in rF2 they felt more powerful (easier to spin the tires on power) and maybe a bit heavier, but still the overall balance seems similar. I think they felt more thrilling to drive in rF2 but I didn't do back to back comparison, as it was a long time since I drove them in rF2. Obviously I don't have any idea which one is closer to real life. Since the last update in AC I like them both.
     
  20. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    1,608
    Likes Received:
    63
    Fully supportive of your opinion here, I feel actual experience is easily 'overlooked' or thrown aside when it doesn't suit the people who defend or attack certain aspects
    of sims.... Selective reading I suppose :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page