Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nazirull Safry Paijo, Nov 25, 2013.
Even in its early stages it is worth having for sure.
2 fastest lappers in Brianza Howston Tim and Pearce lap within .1 of each other, their setups could not be anymore different if you tried in every facet.
I will let you tell them which alien uses a BS set-up. lopl
I always thought that was the beauty of sims since GPL ? Take G.Huttu setups, you had to be a alien to even steer it. lol
It is all 0s and 1s
It is like a Pro with $2000 wheel and pedals telling a guy with a broken rattling Momo that beats him it is not fair because he uses sequential / auto clutch ......... never taking into account the superior performance of his equipment.
I know three guys are at least as fast or faster than me (not aliens, but really fast, can win in lots of leagues with no problems)... one of them with a no FFB wheel, and other two with old Momo Racing wheel, one of Momo just won a 80 min race this Thursday... well, was for strategy, but you can be really fast with no need of lots of money.
See Morgan Morand, has even less hardware than me, and is one of the fastest guys in FSR.
If you are fast... you are fast even with a Wii wheel if you are used to It.
not speed change but sensation, with professional wheel you have more sensation and better feedback. maybe it is more easy to be more fast with entry level wheel with less sensation and less feedback....
look at ECC wheel without ffb, one the best wheel on the market and with very fast drivers.
and good setup of car make Always differences. IMO
I'd be happy to give a sec or even two of my pace for a Bodnar wheel any time for ever ever if I just could. Could gain back half a sec with proper pedals tho. lol
There might be something to it though, the more realistic the rig, the slower I see my laptimes become..
It's a no-brainer right
You just confirm my point being it should never matter what setup or what wheel you use or how much FF you use.
But as you see it does to some......
For that reason he said he will always treat them as games.
What a revelation, they are games, all 0s and 1s , so yeah treat them like one, be immersed and make believe you really are at Brianza like I do ! lol
I do not know how someone thinks like that could do that though.
You missed the point of what was being said.
Obviously anyone can make excuses , in the end most of the time the fastest person or best person at anything will be the person that's had the most practise , equipment might give an edge here or there but with driving simulators 1 hour a day solid practise some basic talent and a DFGT should be enough to post top level laps in any sim after a couple years.
I treat them as there own thing and part of gaming more than driving because driving simulators are closer to games than they are the experience of real driving, even though they have allot of aspects in common and have transferable skills.
You totally missed the point in that the Gforces and many aspects of real world driving add allot of noise and variation into the experience of driving making it far harder to do 100% pure lap repetition as you can do in driving simulators sims.
Still, I'd rather trust a guy who owns a 2-11 and drives it on track (Silver Int) than some guy on internet. And when he says that the car is simulated very accurately then my choice is to trust him. No offence.
Anyone in Battlefield uses 3 screens or pads or better then a $25 mouse has a unfair advantage.
I don't get rid of the feeling to have a to large range of sliding friction while i actually have just tested the Z4 and E92 BMW's with the available tires, and i need to say there is something very familiar but anyway a little bit overdone.
This two cars leaving the impression on me to have no edge and are not dangerous enough. Where rf2 catapults sometimes to brutally this driving game never, apart from some tankslapper nothing surprisingly happens.
The extrem impression of inertia and odd body movements ( mainly noticeable with cockpit view ) of the cars adding to the little steering lag and lead in a slow motion drive while the friction does the rest with the addition of still a little bit to dull T500RS.
Attention, it could lead to asleep in front of the steering wheel while driving single handed.
What I gather from this last page is alot of people like cars that don't have rear grip... at all.
The very first thing I have to do to any car's default setup in rFactor 2 is softening up the rear springs, softening up the rear dampers, locking the coast diff, dropping the rear, ... Just to get some wiff of rear grip. But I'm not taking this is as "omg this is exciting, must be real" but rather as "omg, another car with an awfull default setup for me".
AC is the complete opposite in that aspect (just as Netkar Pro was). Every cars default setup is more or less setup to be understeery so you don't want to shoot yourself when you cant get around T1 for the 5th time in a row because you're not tip toe ing it around as if the track was covered in a layer of ice mixed with oil.
If i was stupid and did not know that someone is reading while experiencing what others think without having to directly deal with it, than maybe i would tell you what's wrong with it, but i'm not going to involve ISI in something stubid while talking about a competitors game while the responsibles in there own forum ignoring everything possible. May someone think that would be smart to spare the trouble in front of their own door while using nicknames and such. I just can lough about how stupid think they are people.
Maybe RF2 is more rear-gripless than it should be, i'm not saying it's perfect. However, in RF2 and the other top sims, I can attribute extremely dynamic and complex car balance, tyre grip slides and microslides, that are extremely dynamically & sensitively affected by how each of us uses our pedals and steering inputs, to real-life, much much more than in AC. This extreme & super highly dynamic complexity (even though it might not be perfectly accurate, and maybe even odd at times) is what it really boils down to in the end for me.
Maybe AC behaves safer and more naturally when you are pushing, let's say 70-85%, but all the top sims I've tried, including Kunos' previous title Netkar Pro, have much more variability and dependency on the user's controls and how much they affect the vehicle dynamics (especially when being driven hard). The physics become a little bland (too much like a "video game" ) for me in AC. It goes much further than just "there is less oversteer so it must not be good", it's the general feeling of how all the cars slip and slide when you're in a slip-angle area of the tyres. It feels a little boring, and you get away with too much, things feel too...I don't know....basic.
For guys who have no racing experience, no theoretical knowledge of weight transfer, car balance, proper techniques, etc. etc. it's just so straightforward and simplistic in the slip angle/limit area for them to just pick up the game and get very good times, good consistency from corner to corner, lap to lap, etc. ("video-game" physics trait). The physics don't have that depth/fidelity/complexity to vary the cars' state of grip and driving dynamics in so many tiny, and not so tiny, ways depending on your control inputs, techniques, skills, how you feel and anticipate the car dynamics at work depending on all the tiny differences between your control inputs, etc. etc.
It seems almost scripted or something, just undynamic. It's like when you go from a PC sim to a console sim, everything just feels so cut down, simplistic and less complex and fidelic going to the console one. Now find a middle ground between that console experience and PC sims, it's right in that middle in-between area where I find AC's handling dynamics. Maybe they are better at feeling natural and under control than other sims, but at the heart of it all when really racing the car, there seems to be this layer of un-complex, much too forgiving, not taking enough things into account regarding how your tiny differences in control inputs can change the car's handling from lap to lap, corner to corner, ease and "basicness" to it all.
For example: In real life I can get 2 EXTREMELY different reactions from a car on, let's say, initial turn-in until about one-third - halfway to the apex. The car balance (when reaching tyre limits/some sort of slip state) and how the car is moving/sliding around underneath you can vary DRASTICALLY depending on the exact precise timing & detailed technique of how the steering is applied (and pedal movements). I can replicate this super complex part of vehicle dynamics and extreme physics complexity depending on your exact precise tiny control input differences, in every sim (including Kunos' previous title), except AC. In AC it's much more just simply "turn the wheel in any generic way you want with no attention to detail, with no drastic changes on handling dynamics based on the exact precise techniques used". It's just so generic and straightforward/linear in it's handling model. It allows so much generic driving skills and techniques to make no difference to the car.
When you are driving a car hard on the slip-angle, you open up a whole new can of worms with regards to how crazy your little tiny inputs can make a difference between spinning, looking like you are glued, fighting the car looking like you are on a knife edge, or looking like you can take a coffee break as it looks so easy. It's almost like a new can of physics laws opens up when you're really driving on those slip angles/limits, BUT NOT IN AC. Instead of this "seemingly new can of physics laws" opening up once you are driving on the slip angle, the opposite happens In AC, the physics become bland, "dead", "linear", and "video-gamish", albeit a realistic, fun and immersive video game that I really like as a product , just not as a "tool" for real life racing replacement/training.
Spinelli is possible that you are using a too high brake gamma value in you control configuration? look like gamma setting (AC)=sensitivity (rF)
And the brake gamma affects both pedals,i used to have 2.4 and now with 1.5 is a lot diferent if I do not measure the throttle I can very easily lose control in some corners.
If you look in the video of Niels (The Talk & Drive Episode 6) he say something about a strange throttle response.
I'm loving it, my favourite sim along with GSC2013 (and iRacing for MP). Like rF2 a lot as well but at the moment it just isn't doing it for me.
In my mind, I'd like to separate, even in the sim world, "driving" and "knowing how to drive". If someone has developed a good sense of how a driving game's dynamics work (emphasizing sense, not knowledge), they'll be able to jump from one to another and very quickly get a good grasp on things. This stuff isn't rocket science.
Story of my life with rF2.
And the problem is, some of those cars (I know at least 2 of them) are using the suggested setup values from the car manufacturers...
I find I can jump into any driving game without issue they are all just different games with some slight different rules , its like going from one FPS to another , though the equivalent mechanics in a driving simulator have more depth.
Yeah I am dumb mate I don't understand that concept...................
You are the guys trying to screw your own perception from sims not me.
Personally I do not care what anyone else feels or thinks, should it matter to me ? Why ?
If I like it ..........I drive it ............all there is to it.
Well... after posting the above and reading the (decent) comments about AC in various forums including this one I`m thinking the only way to judge AC is to get it...
So I did...
I got my refund from another racing title so it`s almost like I don`t have to spend any money on it (if you catch my drift)
Only done some test laps so far, nothing serious so won`t comment on anything yet. I will though.
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