So hows AC for you?

[RCRacing]

Even in its early stages it is worth having for sure.

 

[DurgeDriven]

Ultimately though an alien will always make some BS set-up regardless of the game.

2 fastest lappers in Brianza Howston Tim and Pearce lap within .1 of each other, their setups could not be anymore different if you tried in every facet.

I will let you tell them which alien uses a BS set-up. lopl

I always thought that was the beauty of sims since GPL ? Take G.Huttu setups, you had to be a alien to even steer it. lol

It is all 0s and 1s

It is like a Pro with $2000 wheel and pedals telling a guy with a broken rattling Momo that beats him it is not fair because he uses sequential / auto clutch ......... never taking into account the superior performance of his equipment.

 

[Esteve Rueda]

It is like a Pro with $2000 wheel and pedals telling a guy with a broken rattling Momo that beats him it is not fair because he uses sequential / auto clutch ......... never taking into account the superior performance of his equipment.

I know three guys are at least as fast or faster than me (not aliens, but really fast, can win in lots of leagues with no problems)... one of them with a no FFB wheel, and other two with old Momo Racing wheel, one of Momo just won a 80 min race this Thursday... well, was for strategy, but you can be really fast with no need of lots of money.

See Morgan Morand, has even less hardware than me, and is one of the fastest guys in FSR.

If you are fast... you are fast even with a Wii wheel if you are used to It.

 

[Rik]

I know three guys are at least as fast or faster than me (not aliens, but really fast, can win in lots of leagues with no problems)... one of them with a no FFB wheel, and other two with old Momo Racing wheel, one of Momo just won a 80 min race this Thursday... well, was for strategy, but you can be really fast with no need of lots of money.

If you are fast... you are fast even with a Wii wheel if you are used to It.

not speed change but sensation, with professional wheel you have more sensation and better feedback. maybe it is more easy to be more fast with entry level wheel with less sensation and less feedback....

look at ECC wheel without ffb, one the best wheel on the market and with very fast drivers.

and good setup of car make Always differences. IMO

 

[Miro]

I'd be happy to give a sec or even two of my pace for a Bodnar wheel any time for ever ever if I just could. Could gain back half a sec with proper pedals tho. lol

 

[wgeuze]

maybe it is more easy to be more fast with entry level wheel with less sensation and less feedback....

There might be something to it though, the more realistic the rig, the slower I see my laptimes become..

I'd be happy to give a sec or even two of my pace for a Bodnar wheel any time for ever ever if I just could. Could gain back half a sec with proper pedals tho. lol

It's a no-brainer right

 

[DurgeDriven]

I know three guys are at least as fast or faster than me (not aliens, but really fast, can win in lots of leagues with no problems)... one of them with a no FFB wheel and other two with old Momo Racing wheel,

You just confirm my point being it should never matter what setup or what wheel you use or how much FF you use.




But as you see it does to some......

Ultimately though an alien will always make some BS set-up regardless of the game and without the G forces or proper strength in the FFB sim-racing.............yadda

For that reason he said he will always treat them as games.

What a revelation, they are games, all 0s and 1s , so yeah treat them like one, be immersed and make believe you really are at Brianza like I do ! lol


I do not know how someone thinks like that could do that though.

 

[Jameswesty]

2 fastest lappers in Brianza Howston Tim and Pearce lap within .1 of each other, their setups could not be anymore different if you tried in every facet.

You missed the point of what was being said.

It is like a Pro with $2000 wheel and pedals telling a guy with a broken rattling Momo that beats him it is not fair because he uses sequential / auto clutch ......... never taking into account the superior performance of his equipment.

Obviously anyone can make excuses , in the end most of the time the fastest person or best person at anything will be the person that's had the most practise , equipment might give an edge here or there but with driving simulators 1 hour a day solid practise some basic talent and a DFGT should be enough to post top level laps in any sim after a couple years.

For that reason he said he will always treat them as games.

I treat them as there own thing and part of gaming more than driving because driving simulators are closer to games than they are the experience of real driving, even though they have allot of aspects in common and have transferable skills.

You totally missed the point in that the Gforces and many aspects of real world driving add allot of noise and variation into the experience of driving making it far harder to do 100% pure lap repetition as you can do in driving simulators sims.

 

[thuGG]

For example, the 2-Eleven doesn't feel "wrong", but it does feel like I have to get to 90% throttle to have anything happen. It's not a deadzone, it's just not responsive at all outside that last 10% travel range which makes it FEEL like there is a lack of power, a lack of power on oversteer because afterall, I'm giving it 90% throttle, it should be putting out a very large part of it's power at that point. When in reality it's just getting going at that point.

Still, I'd rather trust a guy who owns a 2-11 and drives it on track (Silver Int) than some guy on internet. And when he says that the car is simulated very accurately then my choice is to trust him. No offence.

 

[DurgeDriven]

Anyone in Battlefield uses 3 screens or pads or better then a $25 mouse has a unfair advantage.


Tissue anyone


lopl

 

[speed1]

Why has AC made you push like a mad whereas ISI sims and IRacing havent? I've seen your videos, you seem to be pushing pretty hard. Do you have an RF2 corvette @ Loch video? Was that you? My apologies if that wasn't you, but if it was you seem to be pushin pretty nicely, and had some nice driving. Why has AC made you push, and why do you feel you are pushing more in AC? Does it have to do with the confidence you get from the car's/game's physics/FFB?

I don't get the fidelic and sensitive responses from the car's behaviour like I do in other sims and in real life. The last few seconds of laptime are much MUCH too accessable in my opinion. There seems to be, in my opinion, pure handling dynamics MAJORLY compromised in order to get the sense of control and grip that you get in real life. It's like in order to transmit the experience of real life grip and stability, they had to seriously add in way too much forgiveness and simplicity in the vehicle dynamics.

I can relate the experiences of RFactor based sims, Iracing, and Netkar Pro to real life. I've done so in probably over 5 different race cars, on multiple tracks in North America and 1 in Italy. I promise you, I truly honestly promise you, the movements and tiny differences that make one guy spin, one guy look like he's glued to the track, and another guy fighting the wheel all over the place.....the tiny differences that determine going through a high speed direction change looking glued to the track like it's so straightforward and easy, while another guy in the same car and speed spins off on the direction change.......all these tiny differences that make some people look like they're driving on ice but others look like they're glued to the track (because they are applying the right combination of steering/brake/throttle inputs at just the perfect moments depending on the cars state of grip and balance which is changing a million times a second)....I promise you that this super sensitivity and fidelity which can make you look like you are glued or on ice is EXACTLY how it is in real life when you are really on it. Despite the differences between RFactor based sims, Netkar Pro and IRacing (they all have their own positives, negatives, and feel) they all have one thing in common, and that is that they all model this overall experience I am describing, AC however does not, or at least not even close to the extent it should when compared to not only real life, but those other sims.

If you ever get the chance to go to a racecar driving school, ask one of the instructors (try to get one that was an ex pretty high-end open wheel guy, not just some guy that is fast compared to most regular track day hot shots). Ask him to take you on a lap, but tell him to put 100% into the lap, like it was a qualifying lap, tell him to go for the highest entry speeds he can muster up, tell him you want everything out of him and the car. I promise you, a road car drivin like this has more sensitivy and movements and importance to your control inputs than any car in AC.

My instructor took me on a crazy hard Chevy Cavalier lap, it was the Z24 LOL those early 2000 ones, when drivin hard it was more sensitive to your inputs than even the race cars in AC. This isnt videos, or articles im telling you about, this is all first hand (or second hand, if the passenger seat counts lol) experience.

I don't want to sound like some know it all, but i've experienced all this in real life and can easily connect it to RFactor based sims, IRacing AND Netkar Pro, although they all do it with their own feel and ways (different physics engines) they still all portray it, but AC is the only sim that doesnt portray this much, if at all, to me. It feels more like a console sim/game that has undergone a "sim" makeover to make it better than GT, but still too video game-ish at the heart of it all. It's like the perfect balance, it's more sim than GT, but not nearly deep and uncompromising enough like a "hardcore" sim. It's in that perfect middle ground, to please 95% of console fans and also 70%-80% of simracing fans as well, which will sadly, but surely, have it recieving so much praise from both camps that people will think RF2 (anything ISI based), IRacing and Netkar Pro have it all wrong, when most people really have no idea what they're talking about.

I hope i'm wrong about that last sentance, it would be a real shame.

I don't get rid of the feeling to have a to large range of sliding friction while i actually have just tested the Z4 and E92 BMW's with the available tires, and i need to say there is something very familiar but anyway a little bit overdone.

This two cars leaving the impression on me to have no edge and are not dangerous enough. Where rf2 catapults sometimes to brutally this driving game never, apart from some tankslapper nothing surprisingly happens.

The extrem impression of inertia and odd body movements ( mainly noticeable with cockpit view ) of the cars adding to the little steering lag and lead in a slow motion drive while the friction does the rest with the addition of still a little bit to dull T500RS.

Attention, it could lead to asleep in front of the steering wheel while driving single handed.

 

[Timpie Claessens]

What I gather from this last page is alot of people like cars that don't have rear grip... at all.
The very first thing I have to do to any car's default setup in rFactor 2 is softening up the rear springs, softening up the rear dampers, locking the coast diff, dropping the rear, ... Just to get some wiff of rear grip. But I'm not taking this is as "omg this is exciting, must be real" but rather as "omg, another car with an awfull default setup for me".
AC is the complete opposite in that aspect (just as Netkar Pro was). Every cars default setup is more or less setup to be understeery so you don't want to shoot yourself when you cant get around T1 for the 5th time in a row because you're not tip toe ing it around as if the track was covered in a layer of ice mixed with oil.

 

[speed1]

If i was stupid and did not know that someone is reading while experiencing what others think without having to directly deal with it, than maybe i would tell you what's wrong with it, but i'm not going to involve ISI in something stubid while talking about a competitors game while the responsibles in there own forum ignoring everything possible. May someone think that would be smart to spare the trouble in front of their own door while using nicknames and such. I just can lough about how stupid think they are people.

 

[Spinelli]

What I gather from this last page is alot of people like cars that don't have rear grip... at all.
The very first thing I have to do to any car's default setup in rFactor 2 is softening up the rear springs, softening up the rear dampers, locking the coast diff, dropping the rear, ... Just to get some wiff of rear grip. But I'm not taking this is as "omg this is exciting, must be real" but rather as "omg, another car with an awfull default setup".
AC is the complete opposite in that aspect (just as Netkar Pro was). Every cars default setup is more or less setup to be understeery so you don't want to shoot yourself when you cant get around T1 for the 5th time in a row because you're not tip toe ing it around as if the track was covered in a layer of ice mixed with oil.

Maybe RF2 is more rear-gripless than it should be, i'm not saying it's perfect. However, in RF2 and the other top sims, I can attribute extremely dynamic and complex car balance, tyre grip slides and microslides, that are extremely dynamically & sensitively affected by how each of us uses our pedals and steering inputs, to real-life, much much more than in AC. This extreme & super highly dynamic complexity (even though it might not be perfectly accurate, and maybe even odd at times) is what it really boils down to in the end for me.

Maybe AC behaves safer and more naturally when you are pushing, let's say 70-85%, but all the top sims I've tried, including Kunos' previous title Netkar Pro, have much more variability and dependency on the user's controls and how much they affect the vehicle dynamics (especially when being driven hard). The physics become a little bland (too much like a "video game" ) for me in AC. It goes much further than just "there is less oversteer so it must not be good", it's the general feeling of how all the cars slip and slide when you're in a slip-angle area of the tyres. It feels a little boring, and you get away with too much, things feel too...I don't know....basic.

For guys who have no racing experience, no theoretical knowledge of weight transfer, car balance, proper techniques, etc. etc. it's just so straightforward and simplistic in the slip angle/limit area for them to just pick up the game and get very good times, good consistency from corner to corner, lap to lap, etc. ("video-game" physics trait). The physics don't have that depth/fidelity/complexity to vary the cars' state of grip and driving dynamics in so many tiny, and not so tiny, ways depending on your control inputs, techniques, skills, how you feel and anticipate the car dynamics at work depending on all the tiny differences between your control inputs, etc. etc.

It seems almost scripted or something, just undynamic. It's like when you go from a PC sim to a console sim, everything just feels so cut down, simplistic and less complex and fidelic going to the console one. Now find a middle ground between that console experience and PC sims, it's right in that middle in-between area where I find AC's handling dynamics. Maybe they are better at feeling natural and under control than other sims, but at the heart of it all when really racing the car, there seems to be this layer of un-complex, much too forgiving, not taking enough things into account regarding how your tiny differences in control inputs can change the car's handling from lap to lap, corner to corner, ease and "basicness" to it all.

For example: In real life I can get 2 EXTREMELY different reactions from a car on, let's say, initial turn-in until about one-third - halfway to the apex. The car balance (when reaching tyre limits/some sort of slip state) and how the car is moving/sliding around underneath you can vary DRASTICALLY depending on the exact precise timing & detailed technique of how the steering is applied (and pedal movements). I can replicate this super complex part of vehicle dynamics and extreme physics complexity depending on your exact precise tiny control input differences, in every sim (including Kunos' previous title), except AC. In AC it's much more just simply "turn the wheel in any generic way you want with no attention to detail, with no drastic changes on handling dynamics based on the exact precise techniques used". It's just so generic and straightforward/linear in it's handling model. It allows so much generic driving skills and techniques to make no difference to the car.

When you are driving a car hard on the slip-angle, you open up a whole new can of worms with regards to how crazy your little tiny inputs can make a difference between spinning, looking like you are glued, fighting the car looking like you are on a knife edge, or looking like you can take a coffee break as it looks so easy. It's almost like a new can of physics laws opens up when you're really driving on those slip angles/limits, BUT NOT IN AC. Instead of this "seemingly new can of physics laws" opening up once you are driving on the slip angle, the opposite happens In AC, the physics become bland, "dead", "linear", and "video-gamish", albeit a realistic, fun and immersive video game that I really like as a product , just not as a "tool" for real life racing replacement/training.

 

[IgnacioK]

Spinelli is possible that you are using a too high brake gamma value in you control configuration? look like gamma setting (AC)=sensitivity (rF)

And the brake gamma affects both pedals,i used to have 2.4 and now with 1.5 is a lot diferent if I do not measure the throttle I can very easily lose control in some corners.
If you look in the video of Niels (The Talk & Drive Episode 6) he say something about a strange throttle response.

 

[Grandi]

I'm loving it, my favourite sim along with GSC2013 (and iRacing for MP). Like rF2 a lot as well but at the moment it just isn't doing it for me.

for a guy who has no racing experience, no theoretical knowledge of weight transfer, car balance, proper techniques, etc. etc. to just pick up the game and get very good times

In my mind, I'd like to separate, even in the sim world, "driving" and "knowing how to drive". If someone has developed a good sense of how a driving game's dynamics work (emphasizing sense, not knowledge), they'll be able to jump from one to another and very quickly get a good grasp on things. This stuff isn't rocket science.

 

[Domi]

The very first thing I have to do to any car's default setup in rFactor 2 is softening up the rear springs, softening up the rear dampers, locking the coast diff, dropping the rear, ... Just to get some wiff of rear grip. But I'm not taking this is as "omg this is exciting, must be real" but rather as "omg, another car with an awfull default setup for me".

Story of my life with rF2.

And the problem is, some of those cars (I know at least 2 of them) are using the suggested setup values from the car manufacturers...

 

[Jameswesty]

In my mind, I'd like to separate, even in the sim world, "driving" and "knowing how to drive". If someone has developed a good sense of how a driving game's dynamics work (emphasizing sense, not knowledge), they'll be able to jump from one to another and very quickly get a good grasp on things. This stuff isn't rocket science.

Exactly

I find I can jump into any driving game without issue they are all just different games with some slight different rules , its like going from one FPS to another , though the equivalent mechanics in a driving simulator have more depth.

 

[DurgeDriven]

You totally missed the point in that the Gforces and many aspects of real world driving add allot of noise and variation into the experience of driving making it far harder to do 100% pure lap repetition as you can do in driving simulators sims.

Yeah I am dumb mate I don't understand that concept...................

You are the guys trying to screw your own perception from sims not me.

Personally I do not care what anyone else feels or thinks, should it matter to me ? Why ?

If I like it ..........I drive it ............all there is to it.

 

[tjc]

Haven`t we all done this already...

Thread

Another AC thread.

Yawn...

Well... after posting the above and reading the (decent) comments about AC in various forums including this one I`m thinking the only way to judge AC is to get it...

So I did...

I got my refund from another racing title so it`s almost like I don`t have to spend any money on it (if you catch my drift)

Only done some test laps so far, nothing serious so won`t comment on anything yet. I will though.