So here we go AGAIN (Build 85)

Something in graphics was changed, and now only the newest and updated content takes advantage of this.

And then if someone could provide functional dev mode with one mod and one track with all the latest improvements.
rTrainer and Joesville are not updated, nothing works well. It makes developing and testing custom mods quite difficult. I don't get any cubic reflections on my cars, but I can accept this if someone could document what I need to change from my material settings.

How many times I have to address this issue? If you are not planning to fix and update dev mode, get rid of it and make the actual single player mode similarly open as with rF1.



Yes I am frustrated, I had high expections of modders beta.

 

+1.

 

This is quite a common thing that happens in beta testing. I have seen it quite a few times and it's not a bad thing, you just have to understand how things work. There are priorities involved, your bug reports do not go unnoticed, just because something is not fixed or has not been acknowledged by a dev, does not mean that it's been ignored. It just means that there are other issues that have a higher priority on the agenda.

Try not to take it too personal. Keep it in your mind that this is a Beta and you should never expect everything to work properly. Know that at any stage the whole system could change and you will have to redo your whole mod/track (as you have discovered with the latest release), which is why you should not be creating your masterpiece at this stage. If a certain thing doesn't work properly, move onto something else, when the next patch comes out, go back and check, if it's still not fixed, make another report about it and move on to the next thing again. Just make sure that with each new patch, if it's not fixed, to make another note of it, don't worry about the fact that your constantly repeating things. Just don't let it get you down, all the help everyone has given in the modding field has be tremendous and a lot of things have been fine tuned. So yeah,, just keep it up reporting things you find, they'll get around to them

 

The main problem is that NO DOCUMENTATION/NO REPORTS has been released for all those new features. Apart the HDR lock I've already reported, there are a lot of new stuff that needs to be explained to modders as they can fix/update their project. I've all my stuff ruined and messed up (car&track) and all that I'm asking for is just to get new documents for new features and proper changelog informations.

Maybe someone think our time doesnt have any value because is free...

 

Well I guess the problem is that I thought this would actually be a modders beta, like how it was said before first rF2 release. It seems now that this has become a players beta, which I can't really blame considering the expectations and whining from players in these forums. Modders always are and will be minority, but this time I really thought this would be modders beta where modders test new features through their own work (dev mode).

I don't mind software changes and having to re-do things because that is crucial part of development, but I am disappointed with the lack of usability of dev mode. I am sure that everyone agrees that single play mode is not practical solution for modders.



Shortly: Dev Mode doesn't work - makes modding impossible or very difficult.

 

Are we really supposed to report any and all weird things every time a build doesn't address them? I've seen the weirdest of things with dev mode, reflections not showing up consistently with it, the settings not affecting anything at times. Again for every build with no standardized system?

Personally I've felt that Luc in particular has been very attentive when I posted about issues I found but perhaps for others it might be beneficial for bug reports to be acknowledged. I understand the ISI team is small but if there is no feeling of reports having ANY effect (which it might look like if the issue has not had sufficient priority to be fixed in the next build) then no more reports will be filed.

 

I think your missing the point, it's a beta, its in development and it's not a finished product. It has been said many times that as each new build comes out, things made with the older build might not work. You do not want to spend hours and hours fine tuning anything at this stage, all you need to do at this stage to test the modding is to just run through different processes of modding. Which is why I released my test track way back in the beginning, its just a few things, each time I test a different feature, I add stuff to the test track, its doesn't have to be special, it just needs simple things in there to test out different functions.

It's sad to hear that lots of your hard work has been lost, but I cant stress it any harder, I have done my part, if you choose to ignore me then there is nothing more I can do. I have constantly reminded people about this, this is not the time when you want to be making your best masterpiece. Wait until the Gold release is out before you start putting any major effort into your mods.

AFAIK, the first release was to test the modding, I'm sure that stage is over now, but obviously still included in the current testing, I think its more of an all round thing by now.

 

Well fortunately my work is not lost, and luckily I haven't used that much time at this beta stage anyway knowing that everything is constantly under change.

If this beta's idea was to test how and if modding is possible, then it has already been proven that it is functional pretty much like with rF1. I like that this part hasn't changed a lot. Other thing is mod packaging and it's challenges, but it is not my world. Let those figure it out who are interested on that subject. I am mostly interested on car material/shader properties - one area where very little information or documentation is given. It has also always changed drastically from build to build.

But again, I am ready to tackle these newest changes even knowing that some months from here they might be obsolete. If I find something, I'll report. In the mean time, I would like to have rollout for various mapping channels used in windshield, tire and paint materials

I haven't ignored what you have said before, it is just that I was expecting better documentations about the build changes so I know where I am at with every build. Such things are always very useful. But I don't know, maybe it takes just too much time.

 

It's not total black or total white. There are gray areas.

Of course nobody here is thinking to make the final cut during a beta test, the proof is that I DO NOT release nothing before the Gold rF2 release.

The gray area is that, at this time, modders just CAN'T do almost nothing because devmode is 70% broken, other features are locked and new shaders on the GFX compartment seems are working randomly until we get any documentation to see the light out of the tunnel.

I'm not asking nothing different from what you said, just to have the MINIMAL support by ISI to "test the modding is to just run through different processes of modding".

How I can test my modding projects working on a crystal ball environment as the Devmode actually is and without ANY KIND of updated informations about how to manage new features?

I'm sure you know better than I that the modding compartment is one of the most important for rF2, as for rF1...and as well it should be during the beta testing period, not to make final cuts but just to keep modders "in sync" with the main project.

Just my personal opinion.

BTW, I can wait. No problems.

 

OK, lets get a list together in point form of what's wrong and we will go through them one by one and see what we can come up with. Then we can allocate the urgency of each issue and I can put it forward to the devs.

 

This is my list not in any particular order:

1. Word from devs that mod dev is exactly similar to single play in matter of how it handles graphics and physics
2. Some word when or if we get track and car for mod dev that utilizes latest features
3. When new builds come available, more detailed change log. Please say how things are changed, not just that they are.
4. Mapping channel rollout for materials like tires, windshield and paint. There is similar documentation already for realroad-feature, no reason why we couldn't have such also for car related stuff.
5. Better information about shadows, if there is some major changes which I am not sure.

I think that's it for now... Other people can add up if they think of something.

 

1) How to manage new reflections; about cubemaps & fresnels on car paintings.
2) How to manage rendertarget digital gauges above backgrounds; in the new build there is a sort of selfshadowing issue that do not allow to get the same shading on gauges and backgrounds
3) Informations on windshield shaders.
4) Why your actual car speculars contains alphas? It's a feature or a future implementation to control spec levels?
5) Informations on what is working on devmode and what is locked and/or broken; Just to bitching with only working parameters, waiting for future devmode fixing.
6) I've random flashing on bodycar paintings (devmode), white jaggering around edge cuts (seems correlated with fresnel settings) of the various parts of the car; Know issues? My fault? Maybe getting infos about new ref system could help to solve.
7) What ISI really means with the term fresnel?... as in real life the fresnel effect is just on light that are moving through different refractive surfaces. Now we've fresnel almost everywhere...what is it supposed to do in the future?
8) The devmode contains several parameters on shadows management. Are those parameters supposed to be controlled by the user? Maybe in the future? It's a pity to have those awful shadows inside cockpits...
9) Informations on road shaders changes.


And for now that's all...


Thanks.

EDIT: point 2 solved using chroma blend on gauges.