No no, I wasn't thinking like that at all. Just good idea to always mention whether it was with or without tow when talking about fastest laps. Don't think it's necessary to run over the curb at T3 (The Left Hander) because it always tends to unsettle the car. I run it over when cannot make the line right (which happens pretty often on that corner by the way). When compared to your line at the video I think one should start taking the corner from far right like you're doing it but turn in more aggressively and hence not making it so "round" as a whole. Could be you doing little mistake there because seems like some extra action with the steering wheel? I ment the uphill turn where the curb should be run over by little countersteering so tail won't snap. To me it looks like you're doing very good job at the Big Bend and two last corners are just perfect. So I would concentrate on The Left Hander and The Uphill. Too bad tire sounds are not heard properly at replays because it would reveal where car is not at it's limits.
Drivers only sounds like a really good fun (assuming fixed setups). I'm going to have busy weekend but trying to find few hours for racing too.
Thanks for the tip and also regarding tyre sounds, i will try upping their volume to help me detect the limit better.
Three things: 1. This is very cool thread with much excellent info and advice. 2. Tim are there plans to add tire sounds to replays? 3. Workaround to help analysis is to record lap live so can hear tire sounds.
I think currently only skidding is heard at replays but not scrubbing - not absolutely sure though. Nevertheless volume settings don't apply to replays.
It's not clutching to unload the engine, it's using the clutch to actually stay in the power and get drive. The powerband of a 2 stroke is vicious compared to a 4 stroke, THATS what makes them hard to ride. The torque curve is not nice and flat, you have to control and ride fast a bike that has a massive spike in torque in its rev range. With the 2 strokes, yes you see the riders have to keep them on the boil, in the power. Fall out of that RPM range and power is lost, and on these highly tuned ones, they are pretty much dead outside the powerband. Plus the fact they are 2 strokes and are firing every cycle means the tyre doesn't get that "rest" between power pulses to grip. That combined with the torque spike is why you see them highside quite often often. In terms of this power pulse idea, Ducatis' have always had that as a benefit of their 2 cylinder design, especially seen in WSBK. They get great corner exit grip and can use the spread of torque they have to good effect. The tyre gets a large amount of time through the engine cycle to "grip". You do not use the clutch to control wheelspin, that is bloody stupid. Unless your goal is to ruin the clutch within a couple of laps... In terms of Road racing riders, what heard from them is that the rear brake is used to control the wheelies over crests. In terms of controlling wheelspin, what is always brought up in interviews is how little they push around the circuits like the IoM TT. Ian Lougher said that you have to ride at about 7/10s, because it is so risky. They dont leave their braking right up until the last minute, with heavy trail braking, and they dont powerslide out of the corners at the edge of grip. Go fast in the fast bits and slow in the slow bits is what McPint said. With wheelspin on a bike, cutting or dropping the power is what causes the big highsides. When the throttle is kept open, the slide continues, and may get big, but the rider does not run the risk of the tyre regripping at an angle outside of the front wheel, compressing the suspenion and rolling the bike over, which then unloads the suspension and kicks the rider off. Shutting the power off... Keeping the power on... BUT I can see that anything I say would not change opinions, so I will stop after this post. Not going to go derail the thread further into roadracing and motorbikes, when this is about Skippys and LRP.
I thought the guy in the vid had it nailed, with no excess scrubbing and that I was doing it wrong. Ahah, here I was thinking I was a really nasty, ragged driver chucking the wee Skippy around with deafening tyre scrub XD
I'm trying to maintain little tire scrubbing throughout corners and hence find optimal slip angle and maximize time on the limit. I think Skippy's tire sounds are excellent and give invaluable information to the driver. Also scrubbing can be heard with default audio settings which is great. Realistic or not but I strongly feel it's a trade-off worth making because IMHO it largely replaces the lack of pants feeling we would get from real car. So in the end it could be that unrealistic tire sounds actually increase the total realism of racing simulation.
Interesting! I thought I was supposed to be scrubbing all the way through? Should it instead be just "spots" of scrub?
Don't mistake "scrubbing" for slip-angle. While having more slip-angle up to a point will increase your tyres total grip and can/will ofc add a little bit more tyre scrubbing because by the nature of slip-angle you are increasing the size of the tyres contact patch. But over scrubbing (by going past the optimal slip-angle) and scrubbing in general should be minimised at all costs because tyre scrubbing is friction and friction resists acceleration and hence reduces speed.
I believe that the optimal slip angle for modern racing tires is around 7 to 15 degrees. If you look at a triangle and set one of the angles to 15 degrees you will see that this isn't that much at all, so hanging the back end out is beyond the limit and you will corner slower. Thought I would throw that in there
This is from the skip barber going faster book. It's not so easy to hold the peak/optimal slip-angle on slicks but it's more forgiving if you go past it unlike the shaved streets which falls off to zero very rapidly. However, the skip barber going faster video is a little conflicting, saying that most engineers agree the optimal slip angles for racing tyres is between 7-10 degrees. So who knows... The only thing i can think of is the book is newer than the video and therefore perhaps has newer/revised info.
This thread is so cool in so many ways. Video will be bedtime viewing! Tim, that clip made me laugh on many occasions (not in a bad way) thanks so much for sharing! Damn i love bikes, ive not sat one one let alone ride for a number of years, but you never forget... Hell yeah 250 strokers are "slow" compared to a big bore 4 stroke, but im qualified to comment here have owned MANY of both flavours, cut my teeth on NSR's and RGV's, lucky to be alive after owning off-their-tits gixxer 750's and 900rr's.Never had a car licence for the record, full time biker for many many years. Big bikes are fun(nothing like lofting a 2nd gear sit down at 100mph+) but for sheer &**('s and giggles, a 250 stroker is hard to beat, always on the edge,exiting rough b road corners pegged less than 200rpm from redline with the rear squirming for grip will probbably die with me as one of my happiest moment's (it did happen quite a bit hehe) in life. Bit older and wiser ( and unable to walk properly, no need to guess why...) Don't think I will ever ride on the road again, its just too dangerous. If my mate ever finishes this "project", i may break that promise though, just once... Bike should need no description...
