rF2 vs GSC2013

Matt Sentell said:
The reason it's awesome:



Heusinkveld is the real deal.
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This video is great. It should be mandatory viewing for anyone who ever doubts that rF is still worthy of consideration as one of the most sophisticated sims available. I'm going to watch them all.
 
K Szczech said:
There's a bit of truth to that.
GSC is using more natural lighting settings than rF2 and pretty well balanced tone of textures, which gives that natural feel of rendered images.

I'd love to do the same with rF2, but I can't. Lighting colors are provided by rF2 engine, so you cannot fix them from outside, like you could with rF1.
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This is pretty much my main and only visual problem with RF2... too many tracks - even ISI stuff like Silverstone and Sepang - looks greenish to the point of cartoon style. feels3 and some other track maker manages to get around it somehow...

That F3 sound in the video is something else... absolutly perfect.
 
Denstjiro said:
Dat Sound....do want
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+1

Engine and chassis sound (especially on the rumble strips) is nice.
The only other video I've looked at for any of Reiza's titles was a lap of Interlagos (don't remember the title) and it also was great.
I'm waiting for the Senna based game.
 
Domi said:
There are two problems in my view; first is that we don't know if this new approach of tire model really works at it should (I don't think anyone here has tried to compare the results of the TGMs with slip angle vs forces graphs from real tires, etc), so whatever we do, we are very dependant of the tire model itself. The Pacejka style model might be less complex but it's very easy to work with, and you can make tires with different known characteristics in a matter of minutes, and try in game.

And second, we have the classic lack of information from ISI, there are still values that nobody really knows well what are they doing. Plus it's almost impossible to know the exact tire construction details with such degree of accuracy as needed in the TGM. And the time needed to generate one single tgm is another important problem...

From a modder perspective this tire model is not a good option in my opinion. It's probably better if you have all the tire construction/materials properties/thermal properties, and maybe it's easier to work with ISI internal tools, I don't know, but you can count with the fingers of one hand how many people (modders) has/will have all this data and/or knowledge.
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The highlighted bit is the real problem. I know there are other sims struggling with this and I suspect ISI themselves have to take educated guesses on certain elements. That being said, I personally don't find any major differences in tire performance and car handling between rF2 and GSC. rF2 of course brings advanced thermal modeling and wear/abrasion to the table, but I'm talking about the force generation. I can go back and forth between the two sims and be at my ultimate pace within 10 or 15 minutes, whereas going to other sims requires a longer period of adaptation. That tells me they're fairly similar in their physics outcomes even though they get there in totally different ways. Most of the difference is in the feedback, both audio and FFB, but it isn't a big difference IMO.
 
I can notice the difference, particularly on how the tyres grip/ungrip. I love Game Stock Car but I really want them to go with the RF2 engine. Niels has been playing with the NSX alot so I think the Senna game will still be RF1 based, but then I think it said the Senna game will be using a new engine so then it can't be RF1, unless Reiza pull a simbin and get the right to modify the core base of the engine??? Very hard to say, but I'm definitely excited for the Senna game (and for the full official release version of Game Stock Car 2013).
 
I find I have better feel with GSC because of the FFB and feel from every car on every track, which I don't with rF2. GSC doesn't have dynamic racing line or the advanced real-time tire modeling with flat spotting (that you can feel well on rF2) but it does have a databank with how the tires should respond on most situations. You can't see a blown tire for example, but it's represented by the temperature and pressure being all wooey. I found myself picking up a car better on GSC 2013 and Assetto than rF2 and pCARS.
 
Hehe you guys made me buy that Sim, Thanks. It is amazing experience i was thinking of installing rF1 again just to have some jump on the side to enjoy old buddy, but ohh boy that is pinnacle of old rF1 engine, Looks stunning, feels great. Does it feel better than rF2? Not for me there is clearly visible gap in graphics although they are crisp and sharp it runs on my system with 3 digit FPS completely maxed out, lack features like Real Road, and physics feel not as detailed as in rF2 although they feel very good to me.
 
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That guy Niels something rocks on physics department.
Once he made a video from RC cars and one of go karts. Obviously i cannot tell about ffb, but from what i can see in video, both of mods behave exactly they behave irl.
And i drove a little GSC 2012. They made wonderful job with a mix of real feel and leobodnar plugin.
Default ffb on rf1 was terrible to me and always i have to mess with realfeel and leo plugin (most because the ffb forces decrease when pass maximum grip of the tires) to get good ffb.
In fact, at beginning of rf2, i prefer my settings with mixed realfeel/leo plugins in rf1 than rf2 ffb. But get rid of that pain in ass settings before each car i choose to drive to get what i think it was most perfect ffb feeling, make me get used to rf2 ffb (which today i found great).


edit: here is the kart videos



Another cool thing they of GSC implement is little twist on head when on turns. To compensate the lack of g-force feelings, is a great idea (i don´t remember if this happen on rf1):
 
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It's mandatory simracers support this Sim. I'm quite sure most people here can afford 25 boxes. It's a small team which is doing an excellent job and extracting all the engine can deliver.

By the way, maybe ISI can correct me, it's not the same engine of rF1, but it's a newer step that never came to the light.
 
I think technically it was RFactor v1.7 that Game Stock Car used, I think it was just some small tweaks and options added, some of which were for ISI's Formula Superleague sim, but I'm sort of half-guessing and half going by a very vague memory of mine.
 
Spinelli said:
I think technically it was RFactor v1.7 that Game Stock Car used, I think it was just some small tweaks and options added, some of which were for ISI's Formula Superleague sim, but I'm sort of half-guessing and half going by a very vague memory of mine.
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I think there were some (few) additional shaders in GSC engine version. But I'm also not sure.
 
JorgeANeto said:
It's mandatory simracers support this Sim. I'm quite sure most people here can afford 25 boxes. It's a small team which is doing an excellent job and extracting all the engine can deliver.

By the way, maybe ISI can correct me, it's not the same engine of rF1, but it's a newer step that never came to the light.
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It's gmotor2 with a lot of optimizing work and other layers of things done, there's no such mysterious rFactor.
 
Guimengo said:
It's gmotor2 with a lot of optimizing work and other layers of things done, there's no such mysterious rFactor.
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Yep, I think it was Renato or Niels who admited that they use stock rFactor, and they can't change anything from the source code.

It just shows how good rF can be if you have proper physics, adjusted FFB (realfeel), alive tracks (micro bumps) and good shader work.
 


Rubens B. on simracing and particularly on GSC 2013.
 
I think what really makes GSC stand out is Niels and that fact that they have RealFeel preconfigured properly. RealFeel really makes or breaks rF1. So many people refused to learn how to properly configure it. They would rather tweak 300 settings in the controller.ini or the LeoFFB plugin (which has to be changed for each car but is saved globally) than change the one and only parameter that needs changing in RealFeel (which is stored per car). With RealFeel you simply set max output to 0 in the controller.ini to totally disable the default FFB and then use 100% RealFeel. You configure the max steering arm force for each car once and your done. Unlike LeoFFB it stores the setting by car name so you don't have the change the settings every time you change cars.

There are a lot of good mods in rF1. Some of them are totally ignored. HistorX, NAGT and AE86 are hands down the best mods. Niels played a big part in HistorX. But what really makes these three mods stand out is their amazing FFB with RealFeel.

Thank god ISI ditched the old canned FFB from rF1 and went with FFB based almost entirely on steering arm force like RealFeel.

GSC just shows what rF1 can do when properly configured. None of this clipy rip your arms off FFB with no fidelity.

I am excited that AC is coming along but still hasn't presented any real info on modding. Hopefully this will get modders off the fence between rF2 and AC. Hopefully Niels starts toying with the new TGM tires.
 
I can get a great feeling with properly configured non-realfeel rf1 ffb. I also have to always make sure to include regular RF1 FFB whenever I use realfeel in Game Stock Car, Historx, and pretty much anything built around realfeal. The added regular RF1 FFB, rather than just 100% realfeel, gives me more feel regarding things like, but not limited to, the following:

- small different slip percentages of my front wheels as im turning in applying more lock
- as im holding the car in a steady state of slip mid corner
- under hard threshold braking
- under the "releasing the brake as im asking more and more of my total grip to go into turning rather than braking" phase

These are all EXTREMELY crucial to not only pure laptime but consistency as well. I can feel what the car needs/wants in terms of technique, and possibly setup as well, and what i'm doing wrong, much more clearly and defined with non-realfeel ffb, but it really depends on the settings of all the different lines of the FFB section.

Realfeel does give a more springy, life like, feeling though, it will feel more natural and better to most, it also acts more naturally and fluidly as the wheel loads up and with regards to the rear end sliding around, it's actually bloody beautiful in the rear end sliding, not only with small slides, but big drifts as well.

Once I got used to the original non-realfeel FFB and learned how to take advantage of all the extra info from it, especially when configured to my liking, I found I could never get those last few tenths without it. The 100% realfeel/0% regular RF1 FFB just doesnt give me all the tiny dynamics that are so crucial to racing these cars (in reallife or sims) on the limit without going over, let alone doing it lap after lap. The regular style FFB also makes it more obvious what the car needs from me as you can set it up to be less subtle just like you would get from g-forces, inner ear balance and chassis/"seat of the pants" feelings in real life.

You have to have the FFB setup properly though and get used to the fact that the wheel's feel of pure naturalism is going to be compromised in order to output much more information about the car, much more details, but again, at the loss of a nice, natural, realistic feeling (this loss can be minimized though depending on your settings). Then when, OR IF, you can get used to the FFB and learn to drive and read/accept the wheel as a tool to transmit information about the car to you, rather than just a replication of a real life steering wheel, then you may understand the power it is capable of. But if you don't try to configure and get used to the language the wheel speaks to you in this FFB, then you may never grasp, and therefore use, the true power of this FFB philosophy.
 
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