Racing against people with different DLCs (suggestion)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kidsu47, Sep 21, 2020.

  1. Jimmi Allison

    Jimmi Allison Administrator Staff Member

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    If it was simple it would have already been added and prices been adjusted.
    Marcel have explained this several times though, the prices on a pack is adjusted so you actually get a pack cheap - compared to getting a car to 15 euro (example) you get a pack to 15 euro.
    If this will be changed in future - i wouldn't know sorry. Wishlist it, it´s probably already there - if so then just add your support to it. I think there is a dusin of threads already instead of one joint thread in wishlist.
    Just remember prices are adjusted ;)
     
  2. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I think costs and prices are pretty important part of this discussion. In a perfect world we would certainly have the ability to race against cars and content we don't own. iRacing needs this feature because one single car there costs as much as a package of four or five cars in rF2. Without this feature people would have to spend over 80 Euro just to have a mixed class race at Le Mans with 6 different cars.

    I think another reason why prices and costs can't be ignored in this discussion is that the development of such a system simply costs alot of money, especialy if it isn't easy and straight forward. Add to this some of the proposed solutions like lowres models, skins and sounds etc and you get increased production costs and time per car. Again, as Jimmy allready mentioned this will have an effect on the prices. I rather see S397 spending their time and money on new cars instead of low res models to support a new feature. But that's only me and I can understand how such a feature would positively affect people who come from countries with difficult economic situations, but just pointing out that you would propably have to pay more for a single car compared to what we have now.

    And last but not least: the ability to race against content you don't own is a feature that we only see in games that have no mod support or options to add your own content, so ripped content is no option. I think it is no coincidence that especialy AC and rF2 as the last moddable platforms force you to buy DLC packs to be able to race with all the content on the server.
     
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  3. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    Ah yes, I should have said conceptually simple. I have been a programmer for long enough to know that things that seem simple can be nearly impossible, @Lazza suggests one particular hurdle. I hadn’t considered licencing, that also throws spanners into the works nowadays.
     
  4. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    It is the same old thing.... £80 is too much.... but £500 on a wheel is justified. One is virtual, one is physical. Doesn't mean the production costs to produce either of them is cheap. Simracers will quite happily sink hundreds into hardware but they seem to whine when a bit of content costs them the price of a couple of cups of coffee or a couple of takeaway meals.
     
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  5. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    @Woodee , for me, the problem isn't if it's cheap or expensive.
    The problem is that we have to pay for something that we are not going to use.
     
  6. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    If you're racing against it then you're using it "in a specific and limited way" so it can be said you should still pay some amount for it.
     
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  7. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Technically you are using it too, as you are racing against them. Not saying you aren't right, just another way of looking at it
     
  8. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I understand what you say but we know that "to drive the car" isn't the same as "to see the car."
    @Seven Smiles , that point of view is interesting. The solution could be to pay a part fo the price to race against them. And for sure that many people would continue against this. :D
     
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  9. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    You are using the graphics of the car and the sound of the car. So yeah.... "not using enough of it to warrant paying for it" *facepalm*
     
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  10. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    I've been thinking about it.
    Are you sure that you are using a car in case that you race against it, just by view or hear it?
    If i drive my car on the street, i've paid my car and the taxes to drive.
    If i drive my car on a circuit, i've paid my car and the price of the track day.
    I don't pay more or less, depending on the rest of the cars. Don't have much sense.
    Wouldn't be the same here?
     
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  11. Carlos Eduardo Araujo

    Carlos Eduardo Araujo Registered

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    Friends, open your minds. The simulator is excellent. We have climate variation, safety car, excellent racing rules, incredible force feedback, a lot of official cars and supreme physics! All of this running lightly, you don't need a super computer to play smoothly.

    The question of cars will bring more people into the game. In our community, several people have content from the game ... some cars separate other complete packs.

    I understand the way the game is designed, remember that the game was developed in DX9, but the gaming industry has changed ... and it took time and investment to upgrade to DX11. It got much better. This shows that at some points it is necessary to stop and think, and often invest time and money, and then reap the results.

    The prices for cars and tracks are excellent indeed. But one more option to buy and be able to play is never much.
     
  12. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    I think @Jimmi Allison already said what we need to know. This is not only a technical problem (which I think to be extremely hard to implement as an update and to be compatible for all current users and all content) but also a big change to the current business model of S397.

    Now, lets say, we get a car pack of five for the price of one (iRacing) car. With that change, maybe we get one car for the price of one (iRacing) car. And yes @Lazza, you don't like my comparison between rF2 and iRacing. For me, iRacing and rF2 are in the same league (AMS1/2 maybe too). For me rF2 even is the market leader when it comes to physics and simulation (thats why I am here).

    And don't forget, this is business too. S397 isn't here to give us a lot of things for low money. They have to make money too and pay salaries, watch competition and be competitive.

    Reading that thread it seems people want the best from all worlds, and this for very low money. Good luck, welcome later again in the real world.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  13. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @vittorio I think you misunderstood me.

    Let's say a new system came in tomorrow allowing you to drive against any car (or some representation of it; which could be a model merely of the same type [sedan, open wheel, etc] scaled to the same dimensions and with the same primary colour). How many people would go and buy 1 or 2 of the GT3 pack cars only? I think it's likely very few wouldn't want to at least try them all, so you could buy the pack, sit there for 47 hours testing them all, then maybe get a refund and buy the 1 or 2 you like - knowing if you decide to buy any more later you'll start to approach the pack price while barely having half the pack. Even I'm leaning towards just buying the pack there.

    On the other hand, maybe some people really like particular brands and will only buy 1 or 2 cars. I suspect this would be few, and some of those might not buy anything (and play online in any servers with that content) if they had to buy the entire pack to get online.

    We can speculate about numbers, but if the new system meant all those people could race online with people who had done the same with GTE cars, everyone wins. Many people playing this game aren't pros and don't have 20 hours a week to dedicate to learning 20+ cars, so having to buy all the packs to race online will at least slow the numbers because you can't make full use of all the stuff you bought.

    What if right now anyone could make a server with any content (easily!) and anyone with any one of the cars could join in? Pie-in-the-sky stuff, no doubt, but it's one thing rF2 could use - more players online. (Not forgetting offline players, but they have their own long list of wishes)

    I don't see a need to change pricing here, and I think any loss from picky buyers would be more than offset by a boost in sheer number of players. Obviously there are other game issues that also need fixing to attract and keep new players, but assuming they're eventually addressed this online aspect will emerge as a more major issue.

    I do acknowledge there's more than one way to skin a cat, but this thread is about driving against non-owned content so I'm focusing on that approach.
     
  14. kidsu47

    kidsu47 Registered

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    I understand what @Jimmi Allison said. What I'm bringing here is what we see in our racing league when trying to implement champinships in South America.

    In our league the main focus is AC and we know what was said about the business system because is the same. The thing with that comparisson is that AC doesn't make more content about at least 3 years now.

    Now, with rF2 people are reluctant to buy content even when is not expensive but the way of the business system and the use that people will really give to it, make them feels that DLCs are expensive. Keep in mind that there is not many rF2 leagues here, there is not competitive/ranking system strong enough to convince people otherwise (even when we put DLC as prizes on our championship).

    Finally, we made a poll recently to have the information about what racing simulators they have and by our surprise almost everyone has rF2 (same numbers like AC/ACC/iR) but they don't feel motivated to buy DLCs to race even when is not expensive; so maybe having prices a little bit higher but knowing people that will use it, will make them feel is cheaper than the explanation I made before.

    Is important to me that you guys understant that I made this thread not as a claim but as a suggestion.

    Thank you again.

    PD. I will search on the wihslist if there's something about this.
     
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  15. Carlos Eduardo Araujo

    Carlos Eduardo Araujo Registered

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    We, here in Brazil, have a situation very similar!

    In our community, most people have rFactor 2, but are reluctant to buy DLC. Sometimes for the price, and in some situations for not agreeing with the business model, why I need to buy 12 GT3 cars, if I'm going to race in 1 or 2. Many prefer to pay only for what they are actually going to use.

    Are we giving a different view of the business model, better or worse? No, just different from the current model!
     
  16. Niek

    Niek Registered

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    Interesting that you mention this when it's beyond broken. But when you complain about it you just get told to "turn it off" and "make a bug report".

    I think S397's current packaging system is what's eventually going to get the sim abandoned in the future. People will eventually get sick of spending a ton of money on cars they are not interested in driving. Take the GT3 packs for example. I don't even like most cars in the pack but I still need it to participate in online events. I really hope they change this ridiculous system because I am not going to stay with rF2 if I need to spend money on cars I will never drive, just so I can see and hear them when another player drives past me. And no, don't try bringing iRacing into this discussion because I would rather spend 15 dollars on a single car in iRacing because the ability to test the cars before you buy them is possible during maintenance periods shows you what you get before you buy it, and with iRacing you are almost always guaranteed to get a quality product unlike in rF2 where content quality and options vary a lot between the DLC's of the same class even.
     
  17. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    @Niek since you would rather pay $15 for a single car and pay $12 for standard monthly subscription fees in iRacing (compared to pay €30 for all 12 GT3 cars in rF2 like for GT3 bundle - once and forever - and no subscription fees at all) and as I read you prefer iRacings business model and quality a lot more than that of rF2 anyway. I ask you, what even speaks for rF2? What still keeps you to use rF2?

    BTW, don't tell people to not try to bring iRacing into this discussion (why not?), when half of your text is about iRacing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
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  18. Niek

    Niek Registered

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    I don't like iRacing's business model at all, but I see more moneys worth in one product that is top notch quality compared to 5 cars I'll never drive. This forced payment is what's not only scaring me, but other people, away from making further investments in rF2. The only thing that keeps me at rF2 is the FFB and the car physics on some cars, but overall it's a frustrating experience to say the least.
     
  19. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Fair enough. What scared me most were the forced standard $12 iRacing subscription payments every month to even get access to all my bought very expensive content . Not paying anymore and no access, what I have learned is you own nothing in iRacing. Never. I just was stupid subscribing and buying content.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
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  20. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    I'm sorry Niek, but I'm going to have a little dig at your way of thinking here.

    You're saying that you don't like the "forced payment" you have to do for the gt3 cars for example. Understandable that it's content you need for participating in leagues etc. So let's say you're forced to pay 15 euros on those gt3 a year if 3 release in one year. That's 3 cars you can drive, just to test/try whenever you want, since you own them. That's the price of 1 car in iracing, which you don't even own, since you're forced to pay around 10 dollars a month to even access the content you have (even for single player testing, so the pay for the service thing is bs).

    I'm sorry, you're a nice kid, but everything I read there was quite hypocritical.

    I can't argue about the quality of content, since I didn't buy new content on iracing for so long because the physics were a joke back then and far from quality.
     

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