Poll: rF1 vs. rF2 tyre-model

should rF1-tyre be possible (for modders)?

  • only rF2-tyres please!

    Votes: 67 57.3%

  • rF1-tyre should be possible

    Votes: 50 42.7%
  • Total voters
    117
P

peterchen

Registered
OK, so as you have propably read in RD-interview with Marcel, he really wants to offer the opportunity (for modders) to use the rF1-tyre-model in rF2!!

So what do you think? Is this for whatever reason, a good idea in that state in which rF2 is now, or not?
 
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I would say not good idea. I'd say make it easier to bring rf1 tire data and use it for rf2. Let's move forward, not backwards.

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
If the real experts themselves prefer to work with rF1 tire model then easy choice from the dev side, I trust those more than a few "I know it all and it is a 10 years backwards step" kind of user.
 
I'm gonna trust Marcel and who he has talked too, not just modders but - and I quote - "also people that do that professionally" to come to the right decision with this non-issue. The main complainers from what I have read are the ones who don't mod and have no clue about it, they just see it has a backward step because it has rf1 written in the title. The Interview Part 2 perfectly answers everything any way, there seems to be a real proper forward thinking attitude about it and for me that's great, encourage more modders the best way that Marcel sees fit.
 
Wiggin said:
I would say not good idea. I'd say make it easier to bring rf1 tire data and use it for rf2. Let's move forward, not backwards.

Sent from my Nexus 7
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I think that's going to be impossible, rF2 tyre model is about tyre construction, wheras rF1 tyre model is a smart mathematical approach where you can match data rather easily, as you have direct control over the output.

I personally don't mind if rF1 TM can be used, however I wonder if it's really worth. Plus how's it going to work under changeable weather conditions?
 
Will Mazeo said:
If the real experts themselves prefer to work with rF1 tire model then easy choice from the dev side, I trust those more than a few "I know it all and it is a 10 years backwards step" kind of user.
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Did not claim I know it all. Appreciate the passive-aggressive comment though. Loads of people claim the rf2 tire model is better and more realistic then rf1 so then why, if so many are concerned about the best simulation and most amount of realism, prefer to use the rf1 tire model?

It would seem a step backwards in terms of getting the most realistic experience from the game.

If the rf1 tire model is the standard for 10 years why did ISI create a better and more accurate ( I can only assume otherwise I can only speculate on its need to exist) tire model for rf2 ?

I feel ISI and company should improve the documentation and tools to allow engineers and teams to take full advantage of the rf2 tire model.



Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV
 
Wiggin said:
If the rf1 tire model is the standard for 10 years why did ISI create a better and more accurate ( I can only assume otherwise I can only speculate on its need to exist) tire model for rf2 ?

I feel ISI and company should improve the documentation and tools to allow engineers and teams to take full advantage of the rf2 tire model.
Click to expand...

+1 :)
 
jpalesi said:
If you don't want a mod with rF1 tire model, don't install the damn mod ! It's quite easy.
Click to expand...
Very true indeed. Slightly off topic but it's difficult when the AI still uses its even if player cars don't.

Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV
 
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peterchen said:
AI uses rF1 Tyre anyways. Just for info.....
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Yea, I was trying to say that, seems mobile failed me. I realize it's more on the AI programing side then the tire model side but it would be nice if they also used the rf2 tire model like the player does. However that is a bit more of nitpicking then what tire model should be the focus moving forward.

Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV
 
The way forward is forward. But if your marketing is "the open racing simulation" limiting anything seems silly. Hopefully we don't get an influx of unauthorized conversions out of rf1.
 
Wiggin said:
Yea, I was trying to say that, seems mobile failed me. I realize it's more on the AI programing side then the tire model side but it would be nice if they also used the rf2 tire model like the player does. However that is a bit more of nitpicking then what tire model should be the focus moving forward.

Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV
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That had been addressed by ISI devs a few times before, and it is always performance related. You wouldn't be able to race a grid of 5 cars all trying to use the rF2 style tyre model. That is also why I am not hyping up massive DX11 FPS improvements, as it has always appeared to be the physics calculations that have the biggest influence on FPS. People play for half an hour and wonder "It looks bad, why is it so slow?", as if looks are the sole area that influences framerates.

As to the tyre topic, I think it is a fine step. It may bring in some of the old rF1 groups, and also kickstart a process of learning. If someone can get their mod into rF2, get it driving with their old tyre values, then start implementing the new tech (chassis flex, shaders, etc), they might then be inclined to start learning how to go about processing new tyres. Hopefully that goes with new tools and docs.
What should be noted though is some kind of marker for the tyre model in use by the car. Like a stamp when you select the car or maybe a tip in the garage settings.

What's more, if we can get both systems working together, it would be great for testing them. Go to the garage, and select the new tyres. Do some laps, go to the old tyres, do some laps, etc.
 
I've got to say I wasn't that impressed when I heard that Studio 397 are considering rF1 tyres. That being said I can see the benefits of having them available for modders to begin with if they are just starting out.

One of the unique selling points of rF2 is the complex tyres. When I think back to when I started racing on rF2, I quickly realised how bad a driver I was. It's taught me to be a much more careful driver, and it really makes you think about tyres which makes the whole thing more immersive. I hate to use the cliché but I do feel this is a backward step.

What I'd much prefer to see is Studio 397 tasking someone (a tyre specialist) with making a 'tyre bank' or a 'tyre pool'. A range of modern and historic tyres in different sizes that modders could use, and edit if needed. As a casual modder myself, I have made a few street cars, only for tyres to be the stumbling block, so a compromise has to be made. I'd personally love to sit down and learn how to make a tyre from scratch, but I simply don't have the time to do so. I also know a lot of other modders who are the same.

I'm also sceptical when 'old modding groups' are mentioned. I know for a fact that a lot of these have either moved to different platforms, or just given up the whole scene due to other commitments. The ones who are still modding for rF2 are the purists who strive for realism, and aren't influenced by gimmicks or fancy graphics.

So, in short, I'd say use the TBC model as a starter for new projects just so modders can get their cars working in game, but support and encourage them to use the new TGM model, and provide a lot more examples to get them started with it.
 
Wiggin said:
Did not claim I know it all. Appreciate the passive-aggressive comment though. Loads of people claim the rf2 tire model is better and more realistic then rf1 so then why, if so many are concerned about the best simulation and most amount of realism, prefer to use the rf1 tire model?

It would seem a step backwards in terms of getting the most realistic experience from the game.

If the rf1 tire model is the standard for 10 years why did ISI create a better and more accurate ( I can only assume otherwise I can only speculate on its need to exist) tire model for rf2 ?

I feel ISI and company should improve the documentation and tools to allow engineers and teams to take full advantage of the rf2 tire model.



Sent from my BlackBerry PRIV
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I think he might be reffering to me, or not. :) Not a big deal tho.

He does not aknowledge that the "real expert" has different goals or better said the way to reach his goal differs a lot from your simracers way.
The "real expert" knows exactly what he should not do in order to reach his goal. Simracers do whatever the heck they can and want to go fast.

It is allready there and can be used so therefore I question the reasoning a bit.
With that said, I'd preffer them not to use the rf1 model but on the other hand it ain't a big deal either for me personally.
At the end it will just increase the gap in quallity in conntent, one thing most people have been moaning about allready.
 
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