New Guy - Should I Get RF2?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ef123, Jun 30, 2016.

  1. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

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    well you thought wrong. thats what happens when you try to brand every guy who voices his honest opinion of being a fanboy of x sim and hater of rf. and these all I pointed out are valid concerns. I can show you right now my steam account and rfactor demo of it, and the thread I opened on steam forum. and you can see me buying this and playing. that is IF, i buy it.


    you are right ac has alot of those little annoying things. I actually even hate that you have to open the launcher layout first, then you have the .exe engine of the game working seperately. or wait times on servers when a session ends, or race ending suddenly with no indication and sending you to the pits, or as you said the actual pitting. or AI etc. but I think race is only done against human players, so I dont really care about AI, I dont feel happy when I make a good move on AI, I dont feel horrible when AI overtakes me. for me AI might be for learning how to race, its not to have fun racing. for me. that aside, these are all objective points. clearly rf2 has the best AI. but when you start to talk like "ac has canned effects, its bad, rf physics better" etc. thats the bashing. because thats just your own opinion and you totally disregard that very successful and experienced team's efforts. hell they have all the budget and access to the real versions of the cars they make, they have a track for themselves. they can basicly go out and feel the car, come back and make it for the sim.

    I argue about things which is not about my rf2 experience, as you can see. also I didnt say developing an engine for 10 years ignorant. I said calling it "not old" is ignorant. it was an exchange of words anyways. i would just say its wrong to call 10 years old engine not old because they added new features on it.

    g27 toy wheel, well yes and that goes for any consumer grade wheels on the market. they just dont have enough power. yes I wont get that and neither will you right? :) these cars arent so much harder than driving a go-kart in a tough track, because of faster turns etc. though I dont get what exactly is your point. from a driving and physics standpoint sim karting and real karting is quite similar.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2016
  2. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    So you really believe that driving a 1000 hp car for two hours with some good downforce is the same as driving a Go-kart? Even a Formula 3 will be on a higher level just because of the higher Gforces especialy during breaking, acceralting and in high speed corners. I am not saying that karting is not physicaly demanding, far from it, but it is entry level for a reason.

    There is a video of Greger Huttu driving a Star Mazda. He was not bad, actually quite good in terms of pace, but he couldn't drive for more than 3 or 4 laps because of the physical forces. And that's with an entry level car with quite short races. As said, people are really underestimating what it takes to drive a race car and wich forces are involved especialy on the limit for more than the usual 5 laps that you have in most pickup races.

    Anyway, you can call the engine old if you want, it does not change what it does and what it doesn't, and it doesn't change the fact that the last iteration of this engine is a month old. It is not just a few features, it's a complete different software compared to rF1 or previous sims by ISI and I can only imagine that it took alot of work and effort to get there, because otherwise all other developers would have done similar things within a blink of an eye and not struggle with basics like pitstops and jump starts. But it is not that easy to get it right, so it is just right to not fix what isn't broken.

    It's just an insight of what I feel is important for a sim and why rF2 suits my needs. You might have different expectations, so make your own decision. You should have all info needed by now :)
     
  3. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Buy the game, use within the trial (refund) period, then you will know. Find out yourself... people's opinion will differ. Not sure what answer you thought you would get by asking on the official game's forum. It's a captive audience and everyone is here because they enjoy using the game, shocker huh?
     
  4. Miro

    Miro Registered

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    You should gather some information about FFB clipping. That realy can make or brake the FFB.
    However that smoothing at 20 is somehting I would get rid of aswell which suggests that you might have a lot of clipping. I personally have a G27 and it servers me well still, BTW I do not use any smoothing. Sure the wheel could be better but it doesn't change anyhting about how you percieve rF2 in comparison to other sims with the same wheel.

    Given the fact that you do not own the game nor do you know much about it's capabillities all this old/new engine talk is pretty much redundant.
    Set up first everything propperly and then take a single car and drive it, drive it long. More than just 2-3 laps. In best case do stints. If you really want to buy it that is what you should do first IMO. If you have questions just ask. Talking about irrelevant stuff wont bring you anywhere.

    Once you have this in your pocket you can pretty much judge yourself if this game is something for you or not.
     
  5. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

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    yes, actually. I do. because a car is 15 times heavier than a go-kart. (not simple 5hp go karts of course) that 15x load needs to be carried at every turn, every braking and at every accelerating point. a light go-kart will push you more when turning, have probably heavier wheel and you are not secured as well or sitting in a nice warm seat, but just a plastic makeshift one :) while driving you have to hold on to the wheel as well. so its not so much easier from driving a race car. physically.


    I dont think ac devs struggle with pitstops or jumpstarts. they have other priorities about their sim and allowing jumpstarts isnt really something that will bring goodness. ac online has yet to mature. about rf engine, I never said building a sim engine is easy, thats why they keep modifying the old one obviously. its definitely not a "completely different" software. its the same updated engine of isi. thats why they called them isi 2 and isi 2.5 - I have played race07 too, and I remember pretty similar feelings to this renault I drive now in rf demo, it was a small bmw in race07 as I remember.

    and yeah I did get some good feedbacks and bad personal ones :) but I'll probably buy before it runs out of sale. lets see.
     
  6. stonec

    stonec Member

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    G27 was released in 2009. It was good enough five years ago, it's outdated FFB tech by today's standard. Any Thrustmaster T300/T500 series wheel produces double more torque at least if the numbers I saw are correct and both are affordable consumer wheels. If you want "strong" FFB on a G27 on rF2, the solution is to crank FFB multiplier to around 1.5, which is same as fake bumping the forces and clipping the FFB (which is exactly what other sims like AC are doing to pretend creating a strong FFB on G27).
     
  7. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

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    yeah quite. though I am afraid 2 hours will show me anything significant. thats why I came here.


    I have driven like 30-40(complete) laps in demo content. the thing is that slidy feeling is there and I cant seem to make more than 2 laps when pushing hard. driving the OW and it spins in really weird ways. like that uphill left turn on the long version of the track. it feels like totally no grip there even when going quite slow.(default setup with low fuel)
     
  8. Remik

    Remik Registered

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    Yep

    ... probably +3 years old kid



    She needs more time ... for example +16 - T500RS.
     
  9. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Not sure what you want to achieve by asking fans of the game. Of course they will sing it's praises.

    Just buy it, if you end up not liking it, then so be it... Move onto another game... Which you ask fans of the game to make your decision.

    Stand by your purchase choices... Turns out poo? Suck it up buttercup

    All sim cars will feel too slidey if you push to hard into bends. Far easier to do in a game than real life as all you have is your hands and eyes to control & react to the car. Slippy to if you go beyond ideal tyre temps.

    Good luck with YOUR buying decision

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  10. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    That corner is very slow so there is not really much aero load, and the line tightens up slightly towards the end. Also, there is a pronounced change in the track camber towards the end of the corner, which really loads up the rear right tyre and starts to lift the rear left off the ground/lessen it's load. You approach the limit of that one tyre very quickly in that corner.

    If you press "Alt =" you can get a display of the actual contact patch and see what happens in that corner.
     
  11. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Your a classic example of so many AC trolls that come here to ask the old "why should l buy " question and then get out of joint when those who know the answers you ask don't give you the answer you want. If you want to hear in a forum why you shouldn't buy Rf2 ask it in a AC forum and you will hear everything you wanted to hear.
     
  12. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    I'm waiting OP, you seemed to of missed this reply :)
     
  13. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    The somewhat unmistakable tone that was obvious from the first post, hah.
     
  14. Gevatter

    Gevatter Registered

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    Well, the answer is quite simple: If I'm not mistaken, concerning features the demo is the same as the full version, minus content. So if that did not persuade you, there's no reason for you to buy it. It won't get any better for you just because its the full version.
     
  15. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    To the OP.

    From time to time this guy is right as it is the case. He is giving you the best advice from all in the thread. Take it or leave it.

    You are asking:
    Should I buy rF2?

    We read:
    Should I buy the best sim in the market?

    If you want more objective answer, ask elsewhere?

    Enviado desde mi ONE A2001 mediante Tapatalk
     
  16. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Yeah, we're on an rF2 forum, but we're aware of that; I don't see anything to be gained by going for the "sounds like a troll" angle. A troll doesn't care, someone who's not a troll is just offended.

    And let's be careful not to talk up rF2 too much. It has plenty of shortcomings itself, though that's certainly not stuff like the tyre model. Anyone trying to replicate a real series with a few specific rules will, at some point, be disappointed to find rF2 doesn't support them. KERS anyone?

    The demo is representative of what the game itself does, so if you don't like it you won't like the game. But you need to be open to the possibility that you might be wrong about what you don't like. People watch real cars, or even drive cars on track days and (quite understandably) drive within the limits and have this impression that race cars have almost infinite grip. You very occasionally see the 'silly spins' in real life that people complain about in rF2 and other unforgiving sims when they do it every lap or two. Partly that's due to lack of feeling from the car, because rF2 doesn't sugarcoat it or help you deal with it by making the car a little more stable, but also it's the difference between consistently approaching the limits and just exceeding them a lot. The best drivers make it look easy because they're the best. Gamers, even sim-gamers, will make a lot of mistakes when they try to push 100%. Even the very best real drivers spend a lot of time catching little slides that you only notice if you concentrate on what they're doing instead of how stable the car looks.

    From what I've heard of AC, it stepped away from the hardcore sim direction during its development, just a little, and this sort of thing is the result: people try rF2 and their small mistakes are now making them spin instead of losing a tenth or two, but because AC is pretty good they think something's wrong with rF2.

    So: Keep trying the demo, if you don't start to gel with it then do yourself a favour and don't buy the game. You won't be happy with it. But turn the FFB smoothing down to 10 or so, I know the rattle is annoying on the G27 but you lose a lot of the fidelity when you have the smoothing too high, plus it introduces a lag of sorts when switching directions. And keep your steering wheel as straight as possible at all times, especially when on the power. If you're scrubbing tyres (understeer) and bringing the back end around under power with too much lock to catch it without a lot of difficult you're just going to cook the tyres and not enjoy it at all.
     
  17. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    I say it a last time: you are totally wrong here!
    rF2 tyre-model has close to nothing to do with old rF1 one!
    IT IS an absolutely new development, please accept this!

    And just in case you want to hear this: it is more advanced as AC ones as you can easily see in the tyre-temp app in AC
    vs. the one in rF2, and compare it to real life thermo-cam stuff.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2016
  18. Associat0r

    Associat0r Registered

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    Hybrid stuff is in the works as has been stated before.

    Remember that isiMotor2's physics engine used in Race07 was already more advanced than AC's. http://simhqmotorsports.com/index.php?/topic/10326-race07-revisited/#comment-107553

    rFactor 2's tire model is brand new and took many years of research. It's a thermo-mechanical physical tire model modeled as a separate body based on first principles, where the entire tire carcass, thread and contact patch is simulated.
    Peak slip angles are dynamic and change with temperature, pressure and camber, instead of staying static as in AC. It's in a totally different league.





    rF2's realroad rubber built-up and drying line is based on where cars actually drive and not just a global grip multiplayer and is also brand new.

    rF2 like rF1 models gyroscopic precession of rotating parts that influence car behavior, not just for the sake of an FFB hack.

    rF2 models chassis flex.

    rF2 and rF1's multi-body physics engine was coded in-house and not based on a 3rd party solution, of which have accuracy problems dealing with stiff problems.

    rF2's collision and suspension handling has been rewritten.

    rF2's FFB code is brand new.

    rF2's AI has been rewritten.

    rF2's resume from replay savegames is brand new.

    rF2's modding tools and packaging system are brand new.

    There is a lot more that I'm missing here.

    All of this alone took more work than most other whole titles.

    isiMotor has been modularized during the early days of rFPro, so that parts can be easily replaced http://imagespaceinc.com/software.php


    Regarding FFB strength, look at the following crash while the driver was trying to adjust his brake bias.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 3, 2016
  19. Ef123

    Ef123 Registered

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    I'll buy the steam version so the trial period is only 2 hours. I thought there was something wront with the setup or some other thing after that gripless feeling of OW car in demo. I did raise the gripping up to 15x and ran a few more AI but feeling is about the same. too slidy and feels unrealistic. thats my opinion, I am not saying its better or worse than any sim. its just how it feels.


    that kid is either hulk or ffb is off, or my g27 is crazily strong. trust me, if she drove my g27 she would get her hands broken in the first turn. seriously. I've been simracing for 5 years but my g27 is quite new. its only a few months old. maybe you guys' worn out gears arent giving you the force I am getting right now?

    I'll probably get this, only to not miss out on this one. however old, its one of the best sims after all.


    I am a legitimate guy who just wants information about rf, whereas you are the very first ones who wrote in this thread to bash ac. I did not ask for your opinion about ac. also you are the one who said on steam "if you want to crash buy ac, for real sim buy rf2" etc. if you believe in the quality of the product you have, you dont need to bash other sims. if I would need negative replies about rf i would go to steam's bad reviews instead of coming here. I never asked for your personal opinion about why rf is better than ac, I asked why should I get rfactor, and what was wrong with the gripless feeling I had. but you out of nowhere started saying "ac canned effects" etc. thats totally your opinion.

    I have already told you about it. there is a reason they called it isi 2.5 - because its pretty much same software. different software would have been called isi 3. I dont imagine them changing the whole thing and still calling it an evolved version of the same motor.

    you are still holding on to that then? I dont really care if you cant take honest criticism from a new player.

    there are alot of talks about rf2 that quality of content differs alot and that while you could feel bad in one car you could love the other. so I am thinking there might be really good cars out there. though I didnt like both of the cars in demo. didnt try the old one.

    so I thought different cars would feel different and I could find more with the full purchase.

    ac does not make the cars easier to drive by going away from being a sim. I've been playing it ever since early 2013 and a hard car was hard back then too. it didnt go easier one bit. ac does not do that I know because there are really difficult old cars, and they are easier cars. that tells me its just the difference among cars. in fact its easy to keep any new car on track as long as you are just driving around and not pushing.

    in OW cars, its still hard to control the throttle, but I have 5 years of experience in simracing and I have done alot of karting and been to many trackdays where I pushed the limits and I know what racing is about. that should count as something. but I struggle and dont feel the grip on that reno ow car. the thought that less grip is always more realistic is wrong. whereas in real life its totally different. I assume each one of you have driving licenses. can any of you tell if you ever have spun for meters while just driving? I go fast even in public roads and I have never had such a gripless feeling. for a car to start spinning tyres should lose contact with the road. its either muddy or wet road or your tyres are very very old or the road is very dusty but still a car wouldnt slide around for meters(unless wet). let alone the car I drove is an open wheel car, designed for downforce and grip. how do I not lose control in my regular car and just cant keep the car on track on a simple uphill? without even applying throttle or not locking up the brakes?

    so I think you are wrong thinking that ac "makes the cars easy to drive" no the most cars ARE easy to drive unless you are pushing the absolute limits or dont know what you are doing. I can name 30 official cars in ac where a new guy wouldnt be able to complete his first lap.

    and thanks for the throttle tip but I think I know how to drive :) I could upload one lap here and talk about the problems but couldnt find out how to save the replay.
     
  20. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Replay is saved automatically if you check your options.

    Demo content changes from time to time (probably after build changes every couple of months), so if you are not satisfied with the car and track combo, come back when content has changed. You never know, ISI may have added a few things with a build change! :)
     

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