Hello everyone. I guess most of us agree that mods are/were essential for the experience we get/got with isi-games. For me it started with Sports Car GT went on to F1C, rFactor 1 and will go on with rFactor 2. I enjoyed plenty of fantastic mods in the past years and I really appreciate the time and hard work the modding groups invest without getting any money for it, at least not from me. Haven't spent one cent on mods so far. Which doesn't mean, that they don't deserve it. They really do! If modding groups would start to charge money for their mods, I wouldn't blame them, because it seems fair to me. Nevertheless I hope this is not the way the whole modding-scene will develop … In my opinion one big advantage of free mods is, that I am able to try every single mod out there without taking a “risk”. I see an interesting mod, fine, download and play. I will stick for several years with some of them, with others I have a punch of good races and some just don't work out for me. So, if every modding group would charge their mod (which would be fair as I said) I wouldn't try that many mods and maybe miss some fine pieces out there. Also I have to do a transaction before I can race, don't like that either. As it is now, there would be the option to donate to every single modding group. I myself would like to determine the amount of money I donate to one modding team upon the fact of how much I enjoyed their mod. Great enjoyment should result in a lot of time spending with that mod. Nevertheless, even mods (modding groups) that didn't work out for me should get their share, although it would be much less than what I would donate to mods which gave me a bigger enjoyment. But doing a transaction for every single mod is really a pain in the ass. Further on a mod can't work out for me in the first place, which doesn't mean I won't enjoy it in the future. Maybe ending up in two or more transactions for a single mod. Ok, ending the prolouge now and getting to my point. I would like to have the option to donate my money into a “pool for modding groups”. Say, once a year. And that should be all I have to struggle with. Lets assume the new MM is able to tell how often a specific mod runs on a server/how often people drive that mod. And every once in a while (every year) all of the money in the pool will be broken down to the modding groups depending on how often their mod(s) have been played. So, even if I run a mod only for a few races, the modding group will get their share. Maybe its even possible to determine how often a specific user have raced a specific mod and each donation could be handled individually. Guess this would lead to more administration work but in my opinion it would an even better solution. Say I'm a very generous person and have spent 1000 $ into the pool. And I really like the mod XY and drive it on and on. In general the community enjoys a lot of other mods more than mod XY, which means most of my money won't go to the mod XY. Isn't that bad, but just don't seems right. About the advantage of this system (in my opinion): (lets stick with the user specific handling) I only have one transaction a year and don't have any further effort. Also its easy to maintain the amount of money I spent. The system dynamically reacts to my driving behaviour. So every mod will get its share, even if the mod didn't work out for me (=smaller share). And if at some point the mod starts to work out for me, I raise the share just by driving. I still can try every mod out there, without spending “extra money”. I can drive a mod without waiting for the modding group to get my money. As its still a donation, modding groups shouldn't have to worry about mods including licensed content. (not more than they have to worry now) I'm quite aware that this system sill has its weak points. For instance, it doesn't consider the amount of work a modding group has actually spent on a mod. A lot of time/work spent on a mod should result in a good mod which than should result in a lot of people driving it. But you can't say so in general … How about people driving offline? Is there a possibility to take this into account too? How to handle track texture updates by a third person? And so on … But I guess its something to start with. So, who should be the administrator of this service? If I'm allowed to pick one, its ISI. Which doesn't mean that it has to be ISI. If the MM stats are somehow available for other peoples too, I don't see a lot of problems if someone else does the administration. Nevertheless I see some advantages by ISI doing this job. It goes hand in hand with their new MM (auto-install mods) They are in contact with most of the modding groups (guess, at least all modding groups, which want to use the auto-install feature) I already have to send ISI some money (which is fine for me!!!). So instead of the $13.00 I sent them $25.00 which adds $12.00 to the pool. One transaction. Of course, this is just an example. Every user can determine for himself how much (if at all) he wants to put into the pool. If someone else does the administration, they have to convince me that I can trust them. I myself have no problem to trust ISI. User could be given the opportunity to choose if they want to spent their money anonymous (use the user-specific ID which is already there) or with their real name (name attached to the account). Some explanation about the last point. As it is often with donations (apart from “direct ones”), you never really know where your money is going. And although I trust ISI, it is always better to have a way to check it. Lets say the pool get split up upon the modding groups once a year. There is a dead-line, and all the money in the pool at that specific date will be used. (if your money don't arrive in time it will be used for the next “payout”) All you need to check if the money is used in the right way are two lists which every user has free insight. One list shows all donations used for this payout. (user ID or real name + amount of donation) The other one shows how much money every modding group got. (they also should have the option to appear on that list with their name or by an anonymous ID) So it is up to us (user, modding groups) to check. Total money of donations should equal total money of payouts minus administration costs (see next section). Of course, for me it sounds fair that whoever administrates this service should get a fair (I'm not the one who wants to determine how much), fix (not depending on the actual donation amount) share of every donation. They have administration work to do and a great responsibility. Looking forward to your opinions on that! Is it even possible? Hope my english doesn't suck
Hey Without agreeing or dissagreeing, some points to consider: Legal issues: the moment a money-making-system is implemented you draw attention. mainly from the owners of whatever a mod is using (cars, livery, advertising, tracks, etc) Especially if it was an official system implemented by ISI themselfes. they would get sued left and right i'de emagin. Stolen content: Its pretty known that some modders/groups use content created by others. what if i create a mod using physics from one existing mod, 3D models from another, etc and get money from it? What if its more populiar then the original mods? Or what would Codemasters think if someone makes money creating a mod by extracting all kinds of stuff from F1 2011 by Codemasters? If you want to reply, that has to be checked by ISI and only original or semi-original content will be allowed then it will be big no-no in my opinion because that would leave them (or anyone running the service) having to determin whether or not surtain content i legal or not. Abuse: The moment you implement some kind of money making system it will draw in money-makers. they will find ways to abuse the system in order to make money. Once they find out how , others will join in as well. because they can. I'de emagin it would be abit the same as we have seen before within the normal modding system, great modding groups refusing to continue because so many people stole their stuff and used it for their own mods. a system as proposed would only increase this i think and we might end up with only mediocre mod-groups because the realy good ones have gone private or otherwise. Additionally: As it currently stands my donation money is going towards a better server, not to a mod group
Can't see why ISI would want to be responsible for handing out donations. I couldn't even imagine the legal reasons that may be involved in something like your suggesting. A modder or modding team could just as easily slap a donation button on their website for people to donate directly.
an Idea..... If I were a modder, I would ...... a.) Provide only unpainted, white cars with no advertising and no banners b.) Provide templates for the community in the package c.) this mod and then coded and controlled sale - d.) maybe to ISI? Paint and skins I would leave the community and my question is this: I would thus legally be on the safe side?
The cars would have to be named with hybrid names as well as the series they represent, then it would need to be left to the community to change those, but doing so would mean mismatches with the server, and the ISI servers or MM at least cannot have official unlicensed material. At least that's my belief.
Hey, at first, thanks for the responses. I think all of Denstjiro points are valid and it is quite what I expected. So at this point (and as it seems at any point in the future) it's more of an hypothetical idea. As the things are, ISI nor any one else should take the risk of running such a service. My first post wasn't supposed to give the assumption that I expect ISI to do it, even if the valid risks weren't there. In this (again) hypothetical scenario (without the mentioned risks) it would just be easier for them, than for anyone else. But I'm quite fine with the service provided Just out of curiosity: Are modding groups vulnerable to litigation, by offering licensed content for free?
I doubt it. It's not sale but donations we're talking about, which legally is a completely different thing. +1
I have never had a problem with donating directly. But having it more organized and integrated into the game sounds like an interesting idea. Or sort of an App Store concept. But the legal ramifications for ISI, or anyone that takes up this project must be big.
Seeing as we're all wanting to charge for the next thing going, can i start charging people who come in and use our servers .........
A modder can make their own choices on donations. As can a server host, a sim site, etc. It can be done with rF1 and rF2. We aren't pursuing that. We may offer further mod and modder services in the future for any licensed material they build for rFactor 2. But those things are yet to be finalized.
"Seeing as we're all wanting to charge for the next thing going, can i start charging people who come in and use our servers ......... " Sure you can. If there's a market, they will pay. Same with mods. Keep it very simple. If mod makers want money for their work (fine by me) then charge for it. If it's good enough, people will buy it.
Nah its ok i prefer the way rf1 works as it is just now, all this talk of people wanting money for mods now is puting me to sleep. I think theyve all forgot what happens when it gets uploaded to mediafire....
Modding and money don't mix. Start creating revenue for a modding project, and modding will be killed before you know it. Modding is a tolerated illegal creative art form. Lets keep it that way. Money would turn it into a ticking time bomb. I guess any sensible person can come up with a hundred reasons why. So i will not go in to that.
