Look what Ive found!!!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1959nikos, Jul 5, 2012.

  1. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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  2. F2Chump

    F2Chump Registered

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    Me, I'd rather pay for cars{if that helps}, but maybe ISI could keep creating new cars and tracks and offer some as paid DLC.
     
  3. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Paying is easy (lol). Offering is another game alltogether.
     
  4. F2Chump

    F2Chump Registered

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    ISI will need to pick up the slack if the modders can't produce a worthy supply{this is a relative term, as personally, I only need 12-15 great cars and I'm done}.
    Btw, I totally understand the dilemma the modders face, and it's one reason why i think at some point in the not too distant future, sim companies will need to join forces and create a limited number of larger sims IMO.
     
  5. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    We should have more content ourselves than most racing games (except the console cash-cows). However, I don't read doom and gloom in that post, I see them saying they are moving on with their lives. It's less to do with the state of modding, more to do with them getting jobs, getting families, having less time.
     
  6. jimcarrel

    jimcarrel Registered

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    Getting a job solves more problems than it creates.
    If they don't have one and do get one, then less time for modding is a very minor inconvenience.
     
  7. privatebrian

    privatebrian Registered

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    I think we should appreciate them more and not take them for granted.
     
  8. erale

    erale Registered

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    First of all this isn't about getting paid for modding. Besides that would create so much more behind the scenes work (licensing etc.) we all know that you wouldn't be able to live from the income. Our community can't even donate a few bucks a year so I doubt they would pay for a mod/dlc.

    But again this isn't about the money. It's about getting new talented modders. Sure we have less time because of job, family etc. but the core of our team has a job and/or family for some years now. For our core this isn't such a big deal. Sure you can't spend 5 ours a day modding but as it's a hobby you'll find enough time over the week.

    Our problem is that we can't find new people to compensate our losses that we had. It's hard to find people with enough skill to actually help us and that have the endurance to work longer on a project than 3 weeks.

    And I'm pretty sure that's a problem that not just CTDP is facing. In the end we'll try to improve our work and skills be trying to raise our own quality bar with every project a little bit and try to stay near the industry standards. But modding is getting way more complex these days, new technologies without the proper tools to speed up modding. Take that and less time with less modders and you could imagine that even smaller projects will take a lot of time. Don't even think of a huge project like 1994...
     
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  9. Crankee Stroka

    Crankee Stroka Registered

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    Wow outrageous sneak peek inside a superlative group of dedicated peoples modding activities.
    They could call it quits yesterday and still go out in a total blaze of glory.
    Many thanks to:

    Andreas ‘Neidryder’ Neidhardt
    Daniel ‘Dahie’ Senff
    James ‘Juluka’ Bendy
    Pier ‘tuttle’ Murru
    Stefan ‘erale’ Triefellner

    and all the MIA's and past associates.
    Great link ty Nikos.

    I'm having a go at making an, (from), rF1 standalone conversion, (single car/private use for now),
    and it's hard to get into at this early stage.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2012
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  10. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    Well, I think I've to clarify a little thing...I'm not going to quit anything. I've signed the CTDP letter just because I understand their motives..and I'm trying to support the team. Maybe my sign is a little bit useless, as I join the team some weeks ago and I shouldn't speak about something I never do for them..:)

    So...my personal projects still remains under construction but they're far easier than create a top quality 24 cars mod...;)

    Just to make things clear.
     
  11. Rantam

    Rantam Registered

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    I totally agree on that with you Erale.

    IMO the real problem is how difficult is to find people willing to spend their free time in long term (despite not necessarily complex) modding projects. As happens with CTDP we at HistorX have a core group of members (7-8) who have been working in the same project for (6) years, spending almost all their free time modding, while the rest of the team members have been with us just for a short period of time. The contribution of these non-core members, despite always valuable, has been rather small (modeling a car or part of it, paint some skins, etc) compared to the one made by any of the members who are part of that core group.

    For me the need of having skills is not really a must to be part of this kind of projects though, so we don't really put it that high on the list when recruiting. Having them of course helps to develop the project faster, but in the end everyone can learn, and if you're interested about it and you have people around you willing to help you you'll learn pretty fast.

    Passion, dedication and having a teamwork approach are really the key factors, and the ones really hard to find. Then is just a matter of time. Some team members and me are good examples of that: people who didn't know that much about modding but who were able to reach a good level of quality on their work as they got the passion and the desire to invest time to learn.

    I do also agree about things getting more complex in newer simracing titles and the fact that we aren't really provided with a lot of tools to help us to make everything faster/easier (despite rF2 looks a bit better on this aspect thanks to its developer mode).

    But I think we can be optimistic. Modding, as any other creation process, is kind of a drug for some people, and there will be always people interested on creating their own stuff, even if they have to invest a bit more time to do it or they have to do smaller projects.

    Kindest regards
     
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  12. Dahie

    Dahie Registered

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    Amen!
     
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  13. ethone

    ethone Registered

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    The problem is we have few people modding to begin with and very few people coming into modding. There are some things we could do as a community to help them.

    - Stop insulting modders for what they do. It's hard enough to do and put huge amounts of effort and time into a mod when all you get for it is five "thank you" messages and two people who have never contributed anything deriding you for the crap you created. I'm not sure why that became acceptable behaviour in the first place. Feel free to call people out on it and otherwise be kind to modders. Don't add more strain to the already big demands on modders, add a bit of relief.
    - Help new modders. I try my best to answer questions or track down issues in the modding help forum but as I said we are fairly few modders to begin with so we can be strained to offer all the help. More tutorials or even a track making video school as has been suggested would be great...
    - Start supporting modding in non-monetary ways: Offer download mirrors. By my count we only have for mirrors whatever the modder himself owns for webspace, plus one-click-hosters, plus my trackcreation.net (which Rob at VirtualR for no good reason keeps out of the release posts there but that's another topic). One-click-hosters aren't made for long-term storage, in fact the older Le Mans from Virtua-LM just recently was not available for download anymore as both the Rapidshare and GameFront mirrors had gotten deleted by them. I mean come on, that's probably the single best track mod for rF1 out there and we as a community couldn't even provide enough mirrors for it to be available anymore!
    If you're highly motivated and have the skills, a new modding/files nexus would be great as we currently don't have one. The reviews portion at trackcreation.net is somewhat of a stop-gap measure but could never hope to be a full-fledged beast like rFc was before it got poisened. Yet, as far as I know, it's the only repository we have.
    Be creative and provide say new plugins or services. iRacing has TradingPaints which I find an ingenious way of solving their livery distribution, from which livery painters benefit by knowing their paints actually get distributed further. We have services like rF2rank that create more stuff to do, more fun to be had, from which obviously modders benefit as well. They also provide another level of quality control. Blog about mods you like and give some more lively feedback to modders. I thoroughly enjoy knowing that all my effort and time have given someone out there a happy time!
    Offer management support for projects, as modding like anything else has an overhead in terms of organization and information management. Or just be that driving or helping factor in a new project.
    Perhaps be that person making that track making video school happen! Find recording, hosting and presentation solutions adequate for such an endeavour and manage the lesson so those providing the actual content for the lessons can concentrate on doing so! I'd be happy to help plan lessons and record some but I can simply not do that on my own.
     
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  14. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    Ethone, you forgot about:
    - hire as modder's servant
    - do mods for modders
    ;)

    Yeah, I know what you meant, just wanted to put some colour to your post, because it sounds like this. If some wants to be a modder, he works disinterestedly for free and without other conditions. If he start to ask for this and for that, it sounds strange too me. Arguing with you, I can always use argument: if you don't like it - don't do this.

    For example I cannot agree with your "Stop insulting modders". Maybe I have not enough experience, but I never seen insulting modders for being a modders or for their work. Saying "your mod looks bad" is not an insult. It is user comment, and any user has rights to do that. After that, good modder, who still want to contribute, should think about: "what is wrong with the mod, what might be changed to make product better". Worse is if such modder will answer: "I don't care, it is my artistic vision and I'm not going to change it". Of course he has right to say it too, but he shouldn't be surprised later.

    In other word, do not make modder a God just because he contributes for free. Even if I'm modder and programmer, and I also contribute my work for free, I just can't agree with you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2012
  15. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    I didnt post it to show doom and gloom.

    More as an insight of a most interesting part of simming imho, modding. The human aspect of the situation is also interesting as it shows issues involved. Reading it, was quite educational for me, trying to understand the situation behind scenes.

    It may be everyday life for those on the inside but Im not one of them.
     
  16. ethone

    ethone Registered

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    If you don't like a mod, don't use it and don't bitch about it. It's that simple you incredible hypocrite.
    Modders contribute content for everyone, you just get modders down. I know which one I value more.

    I'd love to see you banned from this forum. You don't contribute, you only hurt modding.
     
  17. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    Ill mark at my calendar with fluorescent marker the date you will ;)
     
  18. Rantam

    Rantam Registered

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    Come on guys, cool it down :)

    Going back to topic, well, there are going to be always haters around, that's for sure, just because people with a very small amount of respect and without any sense of understanding about the amount of work and even sacrifice that is needed to create mods with a certain level of quality do and will always exist. Or simply because they don't like you for some reason.

    But I don't think that kind of behavior has been accepted by the rest of the community. In fact I think most of the guys out there who are just the opposite: they say thanks, send nice messages or do constructive criticism (which is extremely helpful in many cases).

    And I don't consider that we always have to say that every mod out there is perfect also. Of course modders aren't gods, but I do think they deserve at least a bit of respect when it comes to giving them comments/critics. And I'm almost sure that we all agree on that around here. After all saying "thanks" never does any harm, even if the mod in question is not your favorite and has flaws...

    About helping new modders: I totally agree on that. If we want to have more mods, with more quality, but also a better community we can't forget that. Let's face it: not everyone out there is willing to share their knowledge, and that is sad, because nobody was born with such knowledge. Everyone of us had to learn, and who did learn without any help from anyone? probably not a lot of people. Not me at least.

    Communities are all about sharing, about heading towards the same goals, etc. Even more if they're Internet based communities. CTDP or Virtua_LM are on the pinnacle of that, as they not only release numerous tutorials but also develop tools to help other modders. That is a lesson to be learnt!

    And yes, you don't need to be a modeler, a painter, physics or a sound guy to be helpful. There're tons of things to be done when it comes to complex mod projects, so any help is usually needed and valuable. Once more dedication, passion and teamwork are the key factor.

    Kindest regards
     
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  19. Crankee Stroka

    Crankee Stroka Registered

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    Tut tut tut Tuttle! *wags finger at you...
    lmaooo ;)
    I am quite sure you'll deliver the goods when the time is right mate.
    As soon as I prove my own proficiency to myself with rF2,
    I'll be the first to step up and offer my services to a dedicated mod team.
    Hopefully an Aussie one! 8^D
    (doesn't really matter though).
     
  20. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    To get more practical, will we have HistoricX for RF2 eventually? :eek:
     

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