Latest Roadmap Update - May 2021

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Christopher Elliott, May 31, 2021.

  1. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    you found the joke :D

    The most important when starting from scratch, or the most important now? I can tell you its not as easy as saying X is the most important. You can have great physics, but nobody will play your sim if the graphics sucks and the other way around. They need to be good at everything. When one falls behind, they need to catch up on that part.
     
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  2. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Aaa, thats not about physics. At least not about physics of rF2. It is about physics of some particular content in rF2.

    At least it is that. Otherwise Physics and S397 begins to sound strange in the same sentence :D
     
  3. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I would be carefull to use RaceRoom and their physics improvements over the last couple of months as a benchmark for anything. If your've read the discussion on RD you will notice that Alex started from a physics model that was - let's formulate it in a friendly way - very basic at best and they are still miles away from the leading products. If you start from a very simple model you can make fast progress relatively easy and it seems that one studio is lazy while drinking Gin on a golden yacht while the other studio seems to be working night and day. Raceroom has a strong focus on Endurance content while there is still no word about full dynamic TOD cycles, while there are sparks - so much about questionable priorities.

    With rF2 it's quite similar btw. Most people complain about how the sole focus is on graphics and that there have been many fast improvements in that area while physics development seems slow. It is what it is: any sane developer, no matter if we are talking racing sims or completely different markets, needs to weaken their products weaknesses at first. We can now get into the never ending circle of death while we talk about what should be prioritized and in wich way. Fact is, the success of rF2 throughout the last five years, especialy with the Le mans virtual was the result of S397 focusing on graphics development and the crawling shadows have indeed be one of the most prominent issues that users complained about.

    I allways bring that argument for people who complain that there is too much focus on new content and graphics, but I would give you the advice to boot up the last ISI build and answer for yourself, if that would have been good enough to get us to this discussion here right now. I don't think so, even though there are areas that drive me nuts like new UI and some of it's fundamental flaws. The things is, I forget it as soon as I take stuff like the F5000 cars to the updated Lime Rock.
     
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  4. Christian Wolter

    Christian Wolter Registered

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    Yes of course, don't get me wrong, I like great graphics, I like anything that improves immersion, I myself think that animated pit stops would massively improve immersion and I wish that for RF2 too, but strictly speaking it wouldn't improve the game in itself. I like to drive today with the RF2 physic and the FFB finally in a contemporary graphics. But if you ask around in forums or otherwise you might get the impression that only physic counts, but that's not the case and for that reason I can understand the priority rating. I think if they would have adjusted the physics first (back when they updated to DX11 and VR and rain etc.) instead of the graphical aspect, there would be no RF2 today.
     
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  5. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

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    Glad to see some 'physics' work back on the radar... even sooner than I would expect.

    However, probably not a bad idea to stay, caustiously optimistic... find hard to believe the current team has the resources to send the sim on the next level.
    Having said that, only 'fixing' some aspects, would already be a very nice step...

    Also, good job overall... in the last 6 months, maybe more like a year... feels like the work done has step up in many aspect.
     
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  6. Sim_Player

    Sim_Player Registered

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    True i realise the mistakes now.
     
  7. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Don’t want to derail the thread, but RaceRoom physics weren’t that basic when Alex joined. They had proper transmission model - something rF2 still doesn’t have. You still can change gears without clutch with H pattern gearbox without damage or noise. Tire model was 90% the same as AMS1 etc. But yeah It’s not physical CPM model so it is much easier , but still not that simple.
    Problem with rF2 is that besides some tire model changes there were no major improvements in physics engine since S397 took over. I’m in minority but I’d gladly take AMS1 level graphics (dx9 but not bad) if that would mean the long standing physics issues fixed, new features like hybrid support added and new cars being developed closely with racing teams to make sure they drive properly. That’d be a good trade , but I know a lot of people expect more gamey aspects in simulator. For sure good multiplayer system along with ergonomic UI would attract more players so no wonder why it’s one of the priorities right now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
  8. stonec

    stonec Member

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    There are also things besides graphics and physics. I predict in the future marketplace even a sim that combines the best graphics and physics won't necessarily be successful. Yes, people are still quite graphics obsessed in racing games, but I have noticed the trend is changing in other games. If you look at for example the most popular online games, most lists would have PUBG, Apex Legends, Fortnite, CS:GO and even Minecraft, not exactly games that became popular because of their graphics.

    In the sim racing genre, iRacing has also shown you can use an older graphics engine and still do quite well. I think there will come a point when adding more graphics effects will start to bring in diminishing returns. With the GPU crisis etc., it can even be argued it doesn't necessarily make sense to add any new graphics effects if it comes at the cost of making the game heavier to run.

    It will come down to the whole user experience and people increasingly want games that are easy to jump into without messing with settings etc. Sims will obviously never compete with games like CS:GO where you can just press the play button and enter a game, but there will be a tough competition in the upcoming years between the sims who can catch this relatively small player base. To compete for those players you really need a product that delivers on everything, you can lack in some areas, but at least it should be let's say 90% right in every category.
     
  9. philman

    philman Registered

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    One thing I find surprising is that no roadmap has addressed so far, unless I'm mistaken, the sound issue in rfactor2. This is a subject that deserves attention because sound is part of the parameters of a good immersion in the game and also a valuable aid to driving. All other simulations have made a lot of efforts lately to improve the sounds in the games except rfactor2. When will we hear more about this?
     
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  10. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Yes, rF2 sounds and drive-train modeling (lack of) are pretty big detractors from the immersion POV for me (both extremely strong aspects with RaceRoom).

    AMS2 is coming on strong and the update coming tomorrow will bring more advances from Reiza. The GTE cars sound amazing and while the drive-train in AMS2 still lacks dynamic oscillations, car's DT response over bumps is working decent. The ffb (Custom version) is outstanding and getting close to rF2 or even, exceeding it in some ways. I see this title as having steadily increasing potential to compete with rF2 for my time going forward.

    I hope S397 can make some progress in these areas while addressing other long-standing issues. These seem like pretty monumental tasks to be solved.
     
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  11. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I see a double standard here, and I have to point it out:
    People complain for the lack of features in RF2, but as soon as a feature is added users pretend to be shown the data, the physics and the scientific calculations behind it, plus a master PHD paper on his accuracy level in even the extreme circumstances.
    Another title add an effect that can be completely invented from scratch, and kudos to them , it is the best add-on ever.
     
  12. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    not sure where you see the double standards. Nerds are gonna nerd, and that's why they are great.

    Also what I want to know is what features you are talking about. Since those discussions are usually about physics, I can't think of the last time any features were added to the physics engine
     
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  13. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Core Physics.. out of the hat I can't remember (it is more than 2 years probably), the last small touch ups were on tire department in high slip angle scenario (and hell broke loose) and other small touchs in heat transfer. But this happen regularly with each car featured, everything is put into question, from weight balance (I'm looking at you LH radical SR3) , to the smallest poligon out of place.
    The same happened with chassis flex.
    I was here Gandalf, I was here 3000 years ago when chassis flex was first introduced. :D
    I remember the talks about aqua planing too.
     
  14. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Then what is the double standards comment about?
     
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  15. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    I don't think you care to understand. I won't dig out zombie threads to remind you what I was talking about.
    Feel free to praise other games but keep playing this one
     
  16. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    I mean, there is one person here trying to understand, and one not wanting to explain. Tells me more than enough at least.

    PS I'll play the game I want, thank you
     
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  17. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Can you give some examples? Did I miss some recent PhD paper on rF2 physics (not that I’d understand one anyway)? I only saw couple blog posts by Michael Borda few years ago (which were quite informative).
     
  18. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    For starter, you have to remember that I sucked at english at school, so probably there is some barrier here and there. What I mean, is that RF2 users PRETEND to be shown proof everytime Studio 397 decide to CHANGE something (little or big that is). It happen everytime something changes, from grass color, to sky tint, just to cite the most recent cases, (it happened when they made a microscopic changes to tire behaviour) then it happen every time a car is released or updated.
    I don't mean that this behaviour is automatically sick or wrong (I think it is, but is my opinion). What I want to point out is that a thing like drivetrain simulation.. can't hold this scrutiny level from the community, because I can't believe that real data are avaiable to base this simulation upon. We are talking an open system that could suit hundred of different mechanical solutions. I would call it a canned effect.
    And this "C" word is enough to let playerbase get their pitchfork and torches. :D
     
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  19. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    Good point, but you got to start from somewhere. A system where you can't simply flatshift through the gears without using the clutch would be a nice start and I find it pretty worrying that the "best" sim on the market - if something like that even exists - is the most unflexible and least realistic product in that area with no solution at all. There is no excuse for it from my perspective. At the moment when S397 released the historic F1 cars there would have been a perfect time to implement some like the grinding tranny mod that could be enforced on the servers. That actually made rF2 look like an arcade game when Villeneuve drove the car with a gamepad. Zero assits would have been the way to go. ;)
     
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  20. Daniele Vidimari

    Daniele Vidimari Registered

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    I can't see what kind of proofs one would ask if a needed feature like downshift protection is added. Or disabling H-pattern shiting for cars that don't have H-pattern shifter. Both would eliminate unrealistic and arcadish abuses of downshifts.
     
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