Jeremy Miller tweets (Senior Programmer at ISI)

Marc Collins said:
Hopefully it will include the simplest fix of all--to reverse the default setting for Alt-M so we don't have to press it every time we use the sim. Or, at least share the pain so those who don't use it can manually reverse the setting every time they run rF2. Of course if it was in the UI or even .PLR, this would be solved.
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I doubt this setting will come in as it comes down to mods changing their settings. Once these are done across all mods then the Alt-M will be useless.
 
Radar said:
I doubt this setting will come in as it comes down to mods changing their settings. Once these are done across all mods then the Alt-M will be useless.
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Wrong. It affects ISI tracks just as much as others. In the meantime, why force a manual selection of something that should be set-once and forget. As far as I know, even if every track out there was constructed perfectly, using this setting would not have a deleterious effect on visuals or performance, so ... ???!?!?! If .PLR remembered the last setting (as with mirrors, etc.), the problem would be solved. People could use whichever they preferred: enabled or disabled. How hard is it do that?
 
As was pointed out here and by ISI dev in some other thread it's the track creator's choice to use excessive negative MIP LOD bias. If it's used sensibly I assume there would be no big aliasing, maybe on such tracks alt+M would even look worse. But apparently this high negative bias became a standard with rFactor tracks and has continued into rF2.

Anyway I'm doubting ISI is going to introduce an off switch for something that is a matter of track design. Also it's not a question of difficulty to do, but the dev team has never brought new game options on the fly based on what the community wants. Even obvious ones like the FFB smoothing slider took a long time to get into the menu.
 
I don't really care how the track creators need to do it. How much time and money have users here spent trying to get the game look like what Alt-M is providing??? It needs to be an permanent option in the game.
 
The biggest difference I've seen when using alt + M to disable negative MIP LOD bias, was actually at ISI's Silverstone, so yes I think it would be nice to see it as an option in game.
 
Alt - m works for every single track. Also, every single track even In RF1 had the shimmering/crawling/super-aliased lines....Are you guys telling me that it's purely the modders/track makers fault? Because there are literally over 1000 tracks (I have almost 1000 in GT Legends, surely RFactor must have more) and i've never even seen a single track that didn't have this problem.....To me that points more to a core game engine issue, I mean if most track makers use these overly sharp GFX techniques you guys speak of then surely there must be at least some, out of 1000+ tracks, that don't use these over-sharpening techniques. At least a very small percentage, but I have never even seen 1. I mean out of 1000+ tracks not even 10%, not even 1%, it's literally EVERY SINGLE track that has these issues in RF engined sims.
 
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Hmmm. alt+m. What exactly does this do? Never knew about it.

EDIT: i see now. Nice difference!
 
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And the short-term solution is as simple as rF2 remembering the setting and not reverting to a default. If this is too controversial or too much effort or requires six months of debate, rF2 is doomed. As mentioned above and other places by me, this is a clever solution (or darned good temporary work-around) to a problem that has plagued us since the beginning of rF1.
 
Spinelli said:
Alt - m works for every single track. Also, every single track even In RF1 had the shimmering/crawling/super-aliased lines....Are you guys telling me that it's purely the modders/track makers fault? Because there are literally over 1000 tracks (I have almost 1000 in GT Legends, surely RFactor must have more) and i've never even seen a single track that didn't have this problem.....To me that points more to a core game engine issue, I mean if most track makers use these overly sharp GFX techniques you guys speak of then surely there must be at least some, out of 1000+ tracks, that don't use these over-sharpening techniques. At least a very small percentage, but I have never even seen 1. I mean out of 1000+ tracks not even 10%, not even 1%, it's literally EVERY SINGLE track that has these issues in RF engined sims.
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If I remember correctly, Poznan has mip lod bias set to 0 in most materials, at least the road.
 
hoser70 said:
Alt M????????
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Short summary simplified for end users: ALT M, or whatever key the M is mapped on your keyboard (for me as a French "azerty" keyboard it's ALT ?) smooth a lot white lines on the tracks.

For me (each configuration are different off course) It allowed me to simplify a lot my antialias settings, going from AAx2 and Supersampling gridx2 set in nvidia inspector, to AAx4 and no Supersampling at all.

=> my fps raised from 100 to 140fps in my test area and I have a far better image quality.

So ALT M mean Magic ;) Try it. If the key combination work you have a message which appear saying LOD BIAS DISABLED or something like that. It's a toggle, so hitting it several times and you should see the difference.

For gory details:

This:
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/18712-IS-NVIDIA-Image-Quality-A-Joke-Or-Is-It-Just-Me

and this:
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/18761-ALT-M-in-game-and-or-working-plr-entry
 
Spinelli said:
Alt - m works for every single track. Also, every single track even In RF1 had the shimmering/crawling/super-aliased lines....Are you guys telling me that it's purely the modders/track makers fault? Because there are literally over 1000 tracks (I have almost 1000 in GT Legends, surely RFactor must have more) and i've never even seen a single track that didn't have this problem.....To me that points more to a core game engine issue, I mean if most track makers use these overly sharp GFX techniques you guys speak of then surely there must be at least some, out of 1000+ tracks, that don't use these over-sharpening techniques. At least a very small percentage, but I have never even seen 1. I mean out of 1000+ tracks not even 10%, not even 1%, it's literally EVERY SINGLE track that has these issues in RF engined sims.
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People like copying each other.

I once found a couple of 'interesting' values in an F1 mod, found the same values in another F1 mod, and another, and another. Eventually checked the ISI BMW and there they were. Ultimately they probably made little difference, but anyone sitting there and coming up with values from scratch certainly wouldn't have picked those, yet here were many many people copying a base, modifying what they wanted to, and ignoring the rest.

Someone sees someone else using negative bias, and let's not forget at some point it may have been a better solution than the alternative, and pretty soon they're all doing it. And until someone comes along and says hey, it actually works better without that (as has obviously happened just recently), no one gives it a second thought.
 
I remember seeing ISI comment on fixing Silverstone to have 0 bias (as some were negative) so as I said earlier, modders will need to make changes as will ISI with their content to eliminate this small issue. The Alt-M I'm afraid is the short term fix you need until tracks have been updated accordingly.

As Lazza said above, the original values were copied form various mods probably originating from ISI's mods in rF1 and people have kept using these negatives without a second thought. So instead of bringing in old values that created the problem to start with, modders need to change the values to 0 to fix the problem, it's that simple.

Suck it up and use the Alt-M for the time being instead of requesting old values remain for a new game by allowing a short term fix in .plr file because hey, pressing Alt-M is so hard to do.
 
Domi said:
It's not about white lines, it simply disables negative lod bias of all materials.
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It's about white lines mainly and this is what most users will see and why I simplified my explanations for "end users" ;)

I agree with you as I know what's that does in reality ;)
 
As I said, anyone who knows anything about coding knows implementing this alt+M setting is a couple of minutes of work at most plus a few extra to fit into the UI. But such a change affecting all tracks must of course be carefully considered. I bet the users here did not test what effects it has on every modded track, but ISI will get all the complaints if it turns out some tracks have issues with this new setting. For example at COTA (right, a converted track) some grandstand elements seemed to completely disappear in the distance with alt+M, making the overall graphic experience worse for me.
 
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