How do you know the car is hitting ground or bouncing?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stefan_L_01, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    Hi
    If i look a telemetry data, Suspension travel and ride height Shows values somehwere > 0, allways. E.g. GT ride height 50mm, so it is around 50 somehow. Allways far bigger than 0. Same for Suspension travel.

    So: how can I know that the car Body hit Ground or Suspension travel is at it´s end, hitting bump stop if set > 0 or simply is at Overall stop? I have never seen a Kind of Plateau in the Suspension, a hard spike or whatever that could indicate bouncing
    thx 4 info
    Stefan
     
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  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Ride height should be a decent indicator, as the ride height values should come from the defined floor points (I think it still works that way).

    Suspension travel is much more difficult, because there are variables in the vehicle files you can't generally see and the bumpstops aren't concrete so there's no 'hit' - it's just a increasing spring. If you can run the car low enough and do some consistent back to back tests you might be able to find where the height vs load curve starts to change and identify where the bumpstops are hit (or starting to take effect) that way, but it's not the work of 2 mins I would say.
     
  3. Stefan_L_01

    Stefan_L_01 Registered

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    Ride height is allways way over 0 for most if not all cars , still you get slowed down in the indy oval if you run too soft and/or too low!
    Sometimes you loose grip on the wheels but telemetry is fine.

    25 years ago in GP3 you had an ingame telemetry, showing you in yellow when you hit ground. Its sad that even today we have no similar feedback in a sim that claims most advanced physics. We do not even know about valid Suspension travel, we can not even adjust it like in AC btw.

    The plugin interface is powerful but it really needs some more car data to become useful!
     
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  4. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    I guess they'll implement telemetry with the new UI, so we can see that (i hope)...
     
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  5. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    In iracing, some cars ride height data was taken or measured from different points on the cars, so it wasn’t always straight forward, you had to know where the measurements were taken from

    But you could hear the car bottoming out so you knew it was without telemetry

    In rf2 I haven’t figured out how this works because a drop of say 5mm rear ride height doesn’t equate to that in the telemetry, either static or at speed, infact in some cars this ride height channel has to display -5mm for the car to slow down at high speed, how it can register -5mm is beyond me if the points are measured from floor pan to road or even chassis to road

    Would be good if S397 could comment on this
     
  6. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    It's hard for the common user, that doesn't use telemetry, to know if the car is bottoming out, also the sound it's not helpful at all! To increase the drama there are no sparks too or visual references...
     
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  7. enduser

    enduser Registered

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    Amen brother! Even in GP2 (dont remember about GP1!) u had that , which (ride height) is as basic as setting up your final gear in the longest straight, big omission for me as well.
    Its one of those things i ve read it before but i dont remember accurately, ride height is constant and only suspension travel is affected, then does the car touch the ground ever?
     
  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @enduser Ride height isn't constant, many cars hit 0 ride height, the confusing aspects from setup to on the road is that 1. your static setup ride height is never quite the same as the ride height when you're sat in the car (because it's a reference ride height, more from an engineering standpoint than taking a tape measure to your car) and 2. when you adjust springs or anything else that in isolation would affect the ride height, the game still uses your desired reference ride height (in the setup) and makes other adjustments to keep that (mostly) constant.

    A lot of tintops don't go near 0 ride height, but they also run on less smooth tracks and take advantage of bigger kerbs than an open wheeler would, and their undertray isn't designed in a way that would benefit from super low ride heights, so they're always running pretty high. But many open wheelers (and some tintops) with higher downforce will definitely hit 0 ride height in rF2. The old yellow indicators from GP2 did work but weren't very realistic, unfortunately in rF2 the 'undertray scraping ground' sound isn't very loud or customisable.
     
  9. enduser

    enduser Registered

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    @Lazza Thanks for answering and i appreciate the effort to answer pretty much everything but im afraid no 1 doesnt make any sense (it rather creates more questions), car liquids and driver weight is already included in overall weight, u imply that driver is calculated separately and added when he enters the car, afaik at the point where u r at the setup screen the only weight variable is fuel.

    Maybe i m a noob in rf2 but im not a total noob, by tweaking my custom f641/2 i have learned quite a lot already!

    I not being judgemental and i dont expect every little thing to be included just like that, like a substitute for reality is easy to program, i say that because some forum posts reach to extremes about detailed physics.

    I just want to know about the game, and its something very important for any ow no doubt about that, thing is in rf2 front wing is clipping the ground all the time and your ow typical low setup goes around bathurst with no problem at all ime, (am i wrong?) on the other hand some tall curbs/low cars combo throws the car rather violently in the air like a vertical obstacle... so 1. it raises the question how car geometry is handled in relation with the ground and if a ground touching indicator can be implemented at the moment or they should add more detail at the car bottom 2. can that blind spot in the car setup be filled with motec plugin in an accurate way nothing else needed? 3. will such telemetry be implemented in the new gui as soon as it released?

    Good thing is car height indeed affects your setup significantly, rf2 setup parameters in general work in a sensitive way and thats something i enjoy as i m the type of guy that likes building setups ... for those of us going out in the track and having that feedback on the spot eg. in the tire temp/dmg menu when driving, is important, a huge plus gameplay-wise.

    I consider this one of rf2 weak points but no game is perfect, if they could address those issues like this one here (i hope adding new content is not all there is), adding track temp in the tire model physics, AI gameplay improvements (and whats popular among requests for online gameplay), sound bugs crushed and u can call that rf3 which i think most of us would be very happy to buy!

    couldnt avoid the text wall after all, i hope s397 reads this :)
     
  10. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    From my little brain and experience with rf2, having your front packers not set correctly, which allows the front part of the under tray or wing scrape the floor can have a really negative effect on, braking, turn in, top speed, and handling curbs.

    The fr 3.5 you can’t just lower everything to minimum and go

    Personally I’d like rf2 in game ui to show static ride heights and have it live so changes to camber, psi, suspension all effect it, and to get rid of the game “changing “ things so you’re still at the rake or ride height you started with.

    I want to have to adjust that myself.

    Then we need the ride height sensors to all be at the same position, or if not, then we need to be told where they are in the garage setup description so we can compensate and be able to make sense of the data more.

    Pls feel free to correct anything I’ve said here
     
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  11. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    Also we need some kind of integrated telemetry to be able to setup de car with correct tire pressures and camber angles, right now it's a mess, unless you have motec (which 95% of people don't use or don't have the knowledge to).
     
  12. enduser

    enduser Registered

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    Agreed.

    And how do you solve this, you can tell with telemetry and adjust accordingly while the op can't?

    My impression is that the front wing has a collision model only for the horizontal main part while the other parts clip the ground or gravel without slowing down so i havent bothered with installing motec so far tbh, i probably should.


    As u mention fr35 i remember some times the car bouncing/stuttering in corners (also read it from others) and it could be from touching down. Because it needs the mechanical grip i usually soften the rear AB and overall suspension but i dont know if the springs fully suppress and the car behaves like that. With the gui showing the car touching the road or not u know immediately its the one or the other, with things as they are now i still dont know...

    Also the main reason i havent installed motec telemetry is unfortunately playing with AI has far bigger issues atm so i just dont mess with ride height in general but its needed for sure. So between this & modding i m pretty busy before any telemetry! *sigh*
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  13. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    you really don’t need motec to set the “correct” camber or pressures, the live tyre display is all you need for that, if anything I’d prefer if they got rid of that display, so we had to use telemetry to find the correct camber and pressures.

    I’m sure I’ve read in one of the roadmaps too that they are intergrating motec into the new ui, what that means I have no clue though, maybe just a plug-in like lazzas
     
  14. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Good luck. ;) That's why I use motec for that.
     
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  15. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Sorry, no, I can see how that was a bit misleading.

    When I said "you jump in the car" I just meant what the actual ride height is when the car is on the track (or in the garage) compared to the setup value. Driver weight is constant (actually not separated, but integrated into the vehicle weight). Fuel is the only real variable but even with 1L you will see a marked difference between setup ride height and actual ride height.

    There is a gap between what you think about in terms of a car's ride height and setup adjustments, and how a real car is designed and what rF2 does when you adjust the setup. Partly that's because the game does more than you expect when you adjust a single item that you would expect to affect setup, and partly that's because what we think of as a 'simple' ride height adjustment isn't actually that simple. But at this point I have to confess to not being fully up to speed with the nuances of vehicle design and the rF2 implementation, I just know it's not what we tend to picture in our minds.
     
  16. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    Not sure what you're "seeing" in the live tire display, or the temperatures in the garage, but for me outside temps are allways hotter than inside, no matter the camber, so i find that completely useless right now. It wasn't like that before, but after some update (don't remember when) that behaviour started to happen...
     
  17. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    False. It shows last saved surface temperature. It has been more or less correct ever since last Endurance/GT3 update few months ago and if you had Motec you would know why that looks like that and why it's not wrong.
     
  18. Rui Santos

    Rui Santos Registered

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    Exactly, most people don't have motec, so can you enlighten us? Why it doesn't show the correct/logical "last saved surface temperature" is above me...
     
  19. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    I only run the fr3.5 and can say I can control the temps to have a nice spread, with just the ingame live tyre display, ( by the way what is that actually called), and I’ve double checked with motec and both the live tyre display and in garage temps readings all match just fine

    The only car I’ve found that I couldn’t get the inside hotter than the outside was the gp3 mod, I haven’t driven any gt3/e for a long time so can’t comment on those
     
  20. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    Because it DOES show "last saved surface temperature" correctly.
     

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