GTE Engine Inertia Bug

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GoldenBear, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. fireballR18

    fireballR18 Registered

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    As much as I love rF2, but the quality they are producing and how to deal with such bugs is not consistantly on a high level. It needs some time to repair things and I'm patient. When the total quality is up sometime I will give it a try again.
     
  2. GoldenBear

    GoldenBear Registered

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    Yep. I refuse to buy any more car DLC's until this is fixed. 1/4 year now that this crap is not been dealt with.
     
  3. GoldenBear

    GoldenBear Registered

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    Sure. I left that forum for personal reasons or I could do it myself.
     
  4. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    upload_2019-11-27_15-56-17.png

    upload_2019-11-27_15-57-16.png

    (note: Aussie dates. YMMV)

    (Full disclosure: I was being sarcastic, because you hadn't managed to find your own thread and I did it in 30 secs on my phone. But if you don't go on discord I don't mind finding it)
     
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  5. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I just tried 3 GTE cars, Porsche, Corvette and BMW. All three seemed to exhibit the behavior, but the lower torque flat 6 in the Porsche appeared to suffer more than the two V8s.
    lol.....we Yanks have to laugh Laz, 17 months......lol
    Oh sorry back to the point. Yes, Crimson is correct. This problem was first noted with the ORECA 07 most likely again due to a lower torque engine.(relatively speaking compared to a Corvette)
    In GTR2, I would have said the Baulk(brake) torque was too low and not providing enough resistance to the rpms. But rF2 is much more complex, some have said it is transmission based.
    one oddity, the cars leave the garage fairly easily. You would think the car should have just as much trouble leaving a garage as they do trying to execute a standing start.
     
  6. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    It's no difference for me, if garage, or standing start...the clutch handling is the hardest, of all cars in rF2, to get some movement out of the GTEs. You can't get the tyres to spin.

    Also, what i was thinking about: The low inertia engine behaviour could have an influence on the rear axle, when lifting. Example Porsche Curves on Le Mans with Porsche or M8. It gets SO oversteery, i thought about it, that the revs are "falling" that fast, that you actually create a bit of underrotation at the rear, comparable to a rear brake, which could lead to more oversteer and stress for the tyres, than the regular deal. o_O I can't prove anything yet, maybe i find a way with Motec, if i find some time, but dunno' how to measure this yet...
     
  7. Oldseb

    Oldseb Registered

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    ho!! yes, yes!! also i have the same bug!
     
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  8. J7166

    J7166 Registered

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    This is probably the most logical theory as to why these cars became so unstable after the Lemans BoP Update. The strange rear end behavior seems to be amplified when lifting off the throttle. I really do think you are onto something here, just hope we don't have to wait another 6 months to get a fix. This is more than just a little bug, this is a huge issue with the current cars, that we all paid money for.
     
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  9. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    And I know for certain that only 10% of QA is qualified to give proper feedback on cars and out of those 10%, only half of them have enough time to test sth properly. By properly I mean more than open test branch with new/updated content and drive more than 20-40 hot laps. The majority of QA testers don't even do stints to check tire behaviors etc, just going out... "Ooops. I spun in S1. Hit esc and again." And like that 20-40 times.

    Depending on whether they have more data that they can use to improve cars or they improve it by "fixing" it using testers feedback and pressure to make sth like this or that. They do it as long as there isn't anything else that needs working on. As soon as there is new car with tight schedule on it, working anything else gets slowed down, postponed or released as is at the moment of "fixing" process.

    The thing I cry about the most is ISI with all their faults actually cared about quality of their content and Michael Borda especially. I can barely remember any car being outright broken. We had issues with tires but it was general tire model issues which were resolved by the same Michael. On chassis side, aero etc 97% of the time cars were extremely well put together, so much so that many modders simply copy-pasted solutions from ISI cars and just made minor adjustments to their cars to suit their needs. Now some modders do a better job of making cars than car team does nowadays.

    Michael Borda is still part of rF2 team. However as far as we know he was pushed to work more on tire development and rarely does any major work on cars anymore. Most of 397 cars were and are made by Marek Leśniak and if there's someone who I suspect of letting those bugs to sneak into car UPDATES, not even initial premiere, first releases but to UPDATES which were supposed to improve cars not break them in places that were decent beforehand.

    I'm sorry for pointing fingers here but I've been a customer and very, VERY loyal fan of rF2 since day 1. January 2012 and spent over 2000, if not 3000 hours on it (counting in non-steam time too), defending it publicly and privately for 7 years now. I was very active member of this forum, discord and community forums all over the web. I've bought every single piece of content for rF2. I actually bought rF2 twice because when there was a move onto steam, instead of migrating, I bought 2nd copy directly from steam with lifetime support. I talked to many devs privately, sent lots of bug reports with detailed info, like recordings, telemetry, screenshots and sometimes almost book-size step by step report of what I was doing when sth happened to help pinpointing the issue.

    However for some time now after seeing how little my dedication matters and some devs seem to allow for sloppy work to come to surface and then ask for money for it with absolutely no guarantee that it will be fixed and then once it gets fixed (usually months later), no guarantee it won't get worse instead of better after so much time of patient waiting.

    Criticizing such things led to me getting perma ban few months ago on discord. However because I loved rF2, I want it to get back onto right tracks because rF2 deserves better, we deserve better. It will be a most probably very dramatic comparison but it reflect well what I mean: rF2 right now is as if you had an alcoholic mother. Getting phone calls about her getting to hospital because once again she fell while drunk and hurt herself on street. You can't get your kids to see her grandma because she is constantly drunk. She promises she will get better, you try to help her, even drive her yourself to rehab. And after each time it ends with her getting back to her old, health and relation wrecking ways. Anyone would love to see everything going back to normal but it won't happen if she doesn't change mentality.

    I wish rF2 finds it way again, after not months but years of being lost. Most of us don't want to see 500-modern shiny cars, tracks, most of us would welcome 20 cars that are work of technical art. Flawless or as close to flawless as possible. There's no point in announcing us 284381 new cars and tracks if we can't trust that even half will be done with care and passion to make them a treat to use. We should be excited about prospect of driving 100-200-500 h with a new car, not worrying if yet another thing that you just bought is so bugged that you question yourself if you have Stockholm syndrome.
     
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  10. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    You're right. The comparison is very dramatic, but doesn't reflect the rF2 reality.
    You wish rF2 finds it way again. The ISI way? In this way rF2 would be dead nowadays.
    There are a lot of issues to solve, but the reality is what it is.
    rF2 is a sim perfectly usable in a lot of situations, with good results.
    There is a lot of work to do and i'd like that after the UI and competition system, S397 would focus in solve the bugs and improve the performance.
    But you're describing a catastrophic situation that is unreal.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  11. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Not really unreal though as it's a constant issue with below standard quality.

    I think Any sim forum Will attest to rf2 lack Of polish
     
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  12. lagg

    lagg Registered

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    The alcoholic mother example is miles away from lack of polish point of view.
    It's like if i cut a finger in an accident and someone shot me in the head to avoid me the pain.
     
  13. Ronnie

    Ronnie Registered

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. J7166

    J7166 Registered

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    Here's a quick and crappy comparison video I did with the M8 in iRacing that's shows what the issue is
     
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  15. J7166

    J7166 Registered

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    One more for good measure to show it's not a fluke. iRacing vs Assetto Corsa vs rFactor 2. The RPMs drop SIGNIFICANTLY faster in rf2. I feel this is at the root of the problem with the endurance pack cars since the BoP. And also why downshifting at the speed of light is possible now.
     
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  16. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

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    I was told Borda made one (only one) of the Tatuus cars. I didnt drive them yet tbh, been in a simracing break exactly because of stuff like this (it's the only sim I play), even sold my wheel. Keep checking forums in hope things will improve and it may be worth saving for a new PC+wheel again :D
    If this tire model need someone of his level to make the tires alone holy crap!!!!
    I wish they'd at least manage to convince Niels then to work on the rest since he can still have full control over the stuff in the real time session.
     
  17. GoldenBear

    GoldenBear Registered

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    I agree with all you posted 101%.
     
  18. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    One thing that video shows is that all 3 versions rev up extremely quickly. The rF2 version does pull back down to idle revs more quickly (is that AC idling at <1000RPM? Amazing 3 versions of the car can be so different.. but anyway...) but that's not necessarily engine inertia - it could just be idle throttle mapping in the engine file. (or higher engine braking - which would also agree with the handling observations, and might be a more likely candidate for a quick BOP adjustment)

    I don't think flying to full RPM in neutral (or with clutch) is wrong in itself, you can hold lower revs with small amounts of throttle.
     
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  19. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Legit observation, but there is some issue, it is confirmed already by the devs since august, so whatever it is, it is not as intended.
     
  20. stonec

    stonec Member

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    I think the drop in idle can be adjusted with a single engine.INI inertia parameter, I did quite a bit tweaking with this with regards to a mod back in rF1 days.

    I'm not sure how it relates to the bogging down issue. Bogging down can simply be because the tires have somehow amazing grip. If tires are slipping 0%, then the engine will always bog down, no matter what the inertia. Also if you keep the throttle at 100% after selecting gear, the engine inertia should actually have no effect. Why? Because the engine is already delivering full horsepower. At least this is how my logic works.
     

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