I was wondering if in the future (post gold release) we could have a tool to create vehicle physics by entering the crucial numbers. BHP, weight, w. distribution, etc. Then have a set of pre-modeled tyres to choose from. I feel a tool like this would be suited best for creating street cars. I would love to see this, as my dream sim would have the car list of the console "sims", but with the physics of rFactor 2. So my main query is something like this potentially possible? Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong section.
You mind like vehicles presets to choose (physics, tyres) for mod?, like a template? now that's a good idea.
But what does 'crucial number' in this case? entering BPH is not enough since BPH you referred is single number valid for some RPM. You have to enter whole engine characteristic (rpm vs BPH). Further what about suspension geometry which s crucial for car characteristic. You have to gather a lot data and enter it. I'm not talking about various suspension types still not supported by rF2. If someone think that it is possible to make representation of a car (even street one) by a few clicks - he is wrong. But about tires, since there are more complex than ones in rf1, I think ISI should provide some set of tires reflecting real ones for further reusing by modders.
What I meant by crucial numbers, was pretty much that. I know that information for a lot of modern performance production cars is available online. I never meant to imply that you would only enter 4 or 5 numbers and out popped a realistic car. As for the tyres, hopefully a variety of popular street models will be created that can be used as and how you please. Just as a side note, I am not a modder. I know less than nothing about modding, this is why I would love to see something like this implemented, as in theory it would allow "Joe nobody" (me) the opportunity to not only recreate real life cars, but also create new "concept cars."
Good to see I'm not the only one that thought of such an idea. Good luck with the development and as ever, if you need someone to test if it's idiot proof you know where to look.
Thanks, I will send you a PM when it reach a demo level. For the moment I've contacted some guys in private, with the hope to have a hand on the code, but there is no interest at this point cause i'm on the design stage and some guys just don't see a good ending or it's just too challenging to make. The app it's being done on Visual Studio 2010 with vb.net or c# (I can write both langs) so no problem. Those interested please be kind to contact me privately.
Besides using bhp is something around 17-20% off anyway as rFactor uses metric horsepower. Only thing I figure that can be done would be to establish sort of typical ranges for parameters for specific kind of vehicle, to get one started, another thing (better) would be to have spreadsheet with formulas to translate what we can find from realworld to rF2 units, or even to get method formula how each parameter is calculated from real data. For example with swaybars and brakes there are topics in modding help section to give you just that, but it would be nice to have those from 'factory', that would help with quality of mods a lot of course. But do ISI want to give that information away or do they have resource/time for such is known only by ISI. We can perhaps make that information to Wiki but there will always be some parameters more or less vague by that method. Anyway from such modding manual I could pay 20 euros for ISI, so little only because I'm broke.
I can almost do hello world app without reading instructions, however I can follow and modify a bit of code that someone has made Microsoft Visual series C# and VB.net express only, anyway I doubt that I can be much of help for code itself, but for other parts maybe more, but also as I have little idea of how programs are made and that I can follow simple code, I have found that it is sometimes very useful when testing those other bits.
There was a program out that I have called desktop dyno 2000 that is very handy when calculating engine performance over a range of rpm's. As long as you know most of the specs of the engine you can calculate the entire torque and RPM curve of the engine. You can also see what changing one parameter will do, such as changing the carb size or injector size, or even the timing of the cam.
I think PSIG puts it nicely here and that applies even to rFactor as modding platform too: http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/dyno-board/505094-desktop-dyno-vs-real-dyno.html#post1644655 Another issue with desktop dyno is that one would need to know very accurately how engine is built, many sizes are required, which can be difficult to obtain. So far I have had more luck with long searches of dyno graphs. However supercharged 302 boss is something that is perhaps so rare that haven't been able to found such, also ford was stupid and they have some modern soap boxes that use same naming so it is quite annoying research when trying to find curves for that family of motors, the original ones of course from 60's.
Well, as the article you linked to suggests, crap in = crap out. The best use for the desktop software is to get a rough idea on where you should be as long as the data you are putting in is accurate, and in no way would you use it to advertise torque and horsepower of a specific engine, but for sim racing, the results, as long as the data was correct should be close enough to accurate. The nice thing about it is that when you choose the default items, you can see what the sizes and measurements were that were used. For instance, you would be able to see how many cc's the heads were measured to, the bore and stroke of the engine, and the cfm of the carb, though I am not sure if you could change needle settings for the carb to influence air fuel mixture.
Physics of a car based on 5, 10 or 20 variables are never going to hack it. Even rfactor had more depth to it than that. If you build physics, you're better off doing to legwork to get it right; one cannot just plug a few numbers and expect accuracy. I'm almost a year down the road, and have maybe examined 60% of what is required to build a car.
Surely it has uses, but for rF modder, I think this is better as this is free http://www.camquest.com/ I have used it few times, but there too is margin for error if user inputs nonsense, which can happen very easily. I saved one document about 302 trans am motor which has quite extensive explanation of parts and might do some testing with that again. Problem with typical dyno sheets is that they are limited in low end rpm. Oh yes, engine building tool for universal mod tool is of course a must to have
Just to clarify, I don't expect any car to come from this theoretical tool, to be competing for any mod of the year award. I would love to see something like this so that non-modders are able to create an approximation of a real car, or just create something completely new. I have played GT5 (and continue to) since launch, it is the game that led me to pc sims. But one of my favourite features of GT5 is the concentration on street cars. But I don't see that much love for street cars from modders. I mean that as a generalization as most modders prefer to create race cars/series. I do know there are some outstanding street car mods out there for various sims, but they are greatly outnumbered. As a note on this post, these are my opinions from what I have seen of the pc sim scene so far. I have immense respect and thanks to all the modders that put a lot of time love and effort into what we get to enjoy.
