Fanatec Clubsport Wheel Review

[GTClub_wajdi]

Unfortunately, this was my experience. My CSW base went bad after 5 hours of use (FFB motors crapped out - became very choppy).

Had to send it back to Fanatec and decided not to get another one. I bought the T500rs instead and I've been very happy with it. It's not as smooth as the fanatec because it as the old style belt drive (cogged teeth) so you can feel it when turning, but when driving in rFactor or rFactor2 you can barely feel it.

I had heard that they used some cheap motors in the CSW. I don't know how accurate that claim is, but if it's true then it's very sad. The whole point of an FFB wheel is FFB. The one thing you don't skimp on is the motors!

Anyhow, many other people seem to have better experiences than I did. As for their customer support... yeah. Nothing positive to say.

Thanks for this post mate!now I will go for the t500rs I wanted to buy the CSW but I have read via web that there are alot of reliability issues with the CSR/CSW and I was hoping that,after almost one year from the first release, Fantatec would solve all these problems of reliability, but it seems I was wrong.
t500rs is the way to go!

 

[baked bean]

Thanks for this post mate!now I will go for the t500rs I wanted to buy the CSW but I have read via web that there are alot of reliability issues with the CSR/CSW and I was hoping that,after almost one year from the first release, Fantatec would solve all these problems of reliability, but it seems I was wrong.
t500rs is the way to go!

Yo GTClub, i went with the t500rs and im very impressed with it, been driving the GTR round Nords of late having a blast dude.

 

[Davy TASB]

Thanks for this post mate!now I will go for the t500rs I wanted to buy the CSW but I have read via web that there are alot of reliability issues with the CSR/CSW and I was hoping that,after almost one year from the first release, Fantatec would solve all these problems of reliability, but it seems I was wrong.
t500rs is the way to go!

* chortles *

yeah right, good luck in getting a T500 with a quiet fan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAC7yS-V6qc

I got a refund on mine after my original wheel and the replacement BOTH had noisy fans, and when I say noisy, I mean noisy.
Shame, the wheel was OK apart from that

There's plenty of people moaning about the T500 as well as the CSW if you look around.
Have a look at the GT Planet forum!
No matter what wheel you buy you could get a duffer. Its the luck of the draw.

 

[GTFREAK]

* chortles *

yeah right, good luck in getting a T500 with a quiet fan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAC7yS-V6qc

I got a refund on mine after my original wheel and the replacement BOTH had noisy fans, and when I say noisy, I mean noisy.
Shame, the wheel was OK apart from that

There's plenty of people moaning about the T500 as well as the CSW if you look around.
Have a look at the GT Planet forum!
No matter what wheel you buy you could get a duffer. Its the luck of the draw.

You can fix that fan pretty easily. Take that fan out and replace it with this one...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999601

I believe it's the same size.

Also, just so you know, the fan that comes with it is facing the wrong direction for proper cooling of the heatsink on the FFB motor. The fan is trying to pull air away from the heatsink and out of the wheel unit. I flipped mine over so that it pushes air through the heatsink.

I noticed that once the fan comes on it never went off. Once I flipped the fan over, the fan started to shut off much sooner, which tells me that flipping it over was a good idea.

Just fyi.

 

[GTClub_wajdi]

You can fix that fan pretty easily. Take that fan out and replace it with this one...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999601

I believe it's the same size.

Also, just so you know, the fan that comes with it is facing the wrong direction for proper cooling of the heatsink on the FFB motor. The fan is trying to pull air away from the heatsink and out of the wheel unit. I flipped mine over so that it pushes air through the heatsink.

I noticed that once the fan comes on it never went off. Once I flipped the fan over, the fan started to shut off much sooner, which tells me that flipping it over was a good idea.

Just fyi.

Thanks!
Yes I already think to replace the fan and I have the intention to make some thing like this:

 

[clock]

Unfortunately, this was my experience. My CSW base went bad after 5 hours of use (FFB motors crapped out - became very choppy).

Had to send it back to Fanatec and decided not to get another one. I bought the T500rs instead and I've been very happy with it. It's not as smooth as the fanatec because it as the old style belt drive (cogged teeth) so you can feel it when turning, but when driving in rFactor or rFactor2 you can barely feel it.

I had heard that they used some cheap motors in the CSW. I don't know how accurate that claim is, but if it's true then it's very sad. The whole point of an FFB wheel is FFB. The one thing you don't skimp on is the motors!

Anyhow, many other people seem to have better experiences than I did. As for their customer support... yeah. Nothing positive to say.

i dont understand that quite well, you think that the t500rs has worse feeling and is not smooth, but all is possitive????,

On the FFB motors of the CSW is true they are not the best ones that you can take, but are so far better than the logitech or thrustmasters...And on that i'm agree with you, for the BMW m3 gt2 rim were better using a little more powerfull motors..
if you compare the FFB motors you will see that are stronger and better quality than the t500rs (the t500rs has a plastic rim without weight and the motors still not doing properly as you can see on table speed comparatives).
When you ride with the rim BMW m3 GT2 you have a nice feeling (only some rattling that is on all wheels on turn in Rfactor 2) you could feel the weight of real wheel, and maybe you are not the faster due its large diameter and weigth (have to struggle so much on chicanes to make quick change on directions) but it could not be compared to the T500rs because the feeling is totally diferent with its the plastic rim and weight) someone in rfactornews.com make a mod putting a nice rim wheel on the t500rs and that one is so far better him choose a little momo wheel because it are faster to turn..(hechi is his name)
you can see it here..
http://www.rfactornews.com/showthread.php/17211-Material-para-mejorar-nuestro-T500-RS

The customer support is another part, and i'm agree with you that is lack of profesionality on that, Fanatec have to improve so much on it...and so many people think it, i will say you in short time because i will contact them too.
(my CSP V2 Pedals have the electronic motherboard that fails when i conect the pedals to the wheel giving false information on throttle, and if i connect them via USB to the pc sometimes it make it too and sometimes works (when dont work i have to move the cable plugging and unpluggling to the electronic motherboard) .. I will have to contact them for that...

 

[geg]

I changed my T500Rs for CSW and a CSP v2. In my point of view there is no way to compare both.

- The CSW is made of good quality material. The T500RS is made of plastic.
- The CSW's FFB is really precise and smooth you can really feel the road. I think this is because Fanatec went with 4 small motors and not a big one like the T500RS.
- You do not feel the crenellation engine thanks to the belt system on the CSW.
- The CSP v2 is for me a big step in term of realism (Break load cell, clutch mechanism, quality and shape of pedals) compare to the T500RS pedals.

I had a little problem with the throttle of the CSP v2. The (driver/ingame) bar did not go to 100% from time to time. I could fix it by tighten the accelerator magnet screws as described in the Fanatec support page.

I am not saying that the T500RS is bad wheel but for me it is not at the level of the CSW.

So far, I am really happy with my new toys and I highly recommend it. I had no contact with the Fanatec support so I cannot juge.

 

[Walther001]

The whole point of me showing the video was that it is fast, FFB is very strong and The quality is beyond its price point.. The problem as always is that bad news travels faster than good news.. A couple of bad experiences doesnt make it a bad product.. Take a chance on Fanatec!

I almost bought the T500rs due to the bad reviews, but then realised most of the people reviewing the CSW products haven't actually driven a real race car..
I was very fortunate to do so for a couple of years.. So when people talk about a bit slow or heavy, please step into a real race car and then tell me that this is heavy.. Race cars have tyres with maximum grip and suspension to create maximum grip.. That cannot be anything else than heavy and sometimes a bit sluggish depending on what car you drive.. They are not created for comfort, but for speed.. Your arm muscles will be developped big time.. Try a go-kart and you will see what I mean..

The CSW BMW has already done more than 5 hours with me so did the CSR wheel and no issues whatsoever.. None! I have only bought the CSR wheel like 9 weeks ago and now replaced it with the CSW.. I wanted a more Rally experience and this wheel feels a 100 times better for it.. So to sum it up, unless you have actually driven that particular race-car and can't get the settings right, not getting the wheel right does that mean it might be wrong or you feel it is not comfortable?

Also, the BMW CSW FFB not strong enough?? Im 6ft5 weigh in about 250 pounds and work out.. With the settings in my video if I would put that up more, FOR at about a 100, I won't be able to drive and shift gears.. The FFB is too strong.. Which sim are you talking about? iRacing is the same for me.. Really strong FFB

 

[dest1ny49]

@Motors:
- T500RS uses one highend "Bühler-Motor" with very high torque and topnotch quality and durability designed for industrial use
- Fanatec CSW und CSR-Elite have two Mabuchi 500-series with high rpm but low torque developed for scale modelling race cars

I would like these new Fanatec-Wheels, but it was a bad decision to use these Mabuchi-motors and not "Bühler" or "Faulhaber" industrial grade ones with high torque. For a FFB-Wheel you need high torque at low rpm, i want a CSW or CSR-E V2 with improved belt-drive and better motor.

 

[GTFREAK]

A couple of bad experiences doesnt make it a bad product..

A couple of bad experiences? I completely disagree with you on this point. There have been more than a couple of bad experiences with Fanatec and their customers. I, myself have had more than a couple bad experiences with Fanatec and I'm just one person.

I will not make any excuses for them whatsoever. I'm not here to spread rumors or ruin the reputation of Fanatec. I'll leave that up to them.

They have some very nice products in their lineup and some that are very reliable. I even own a set of V2 pedals. However, the lack of customer support and the way customers are treated leaves a lot to be desired. I think I've said just about as much as I care to with regard to Fanatec, and this thread was meant to be a review for one of their products. I'm going to apologize now for responding to someone else in this thread with my opinions about my bad experience. I should have opened my own thread on the subject.

With regard to comparing the T500rs with the Fanatec CSW.... In my honest opinion, the T500rs blows away the Fanatec in terms of FFB. I'll say it again so there is no confusion... This is my "opinion". Others will obvioulsly have different feelings on the subject.

i dont understand that quite well, you think that the t500rs has worse feeling and is not smooth, but all is possitive????

Where did I say it had worse feeling? I said it was not as smooth and that's a fact. When using a cogged belt instead of a grooved belt (like on the Fanatec) you are going to feel the teeth when turning the wheel. There's no getting around it. Try any of the Fanatec Porsche wheels. They all have the old style belts in them and you can feel the teeth on the belt when turning. It's very subtle, but it's there.

Nowhere did I say it was worse. In fact, I feel the opposite.

Anyhow, I would just like to point out that the "feelings" on FFB are all subjective. Meaning some may prefer this, or some may prefer that. We are all human and that means we're all different and enjoy different things. There's really no reason to debate which is "better" because some may feel the opposite.

I prefer the T500rs. Great wheel, monster FFB and I'm very happy with it.

 

[DrR1pper]

@Motors:
- T500RS uses one highend "Bühler-Motor" with very high torque and topnotch quality and durability designed for industrial use
- Fanatec CSW und CSR-Elite have two Mabuchi 500-series with high rpm but low torque developed for scale modelling race cars

I would like these new Fanatec-Wheels, but it was a bad decision to use these Mabuchi-motors and not "Bühler" or "Faulhaber" industrial grade ones with high torque. For a FFB-Wheel you need high torque at low rpm, i want a CSW or CSR-E V2 with improved belt-drive and better motor.

Do you not need a high RPM motor to more successfully catch the car from instability (e.g. a snap oversteer situation, etc)? I'm not saying that's the only reason for a high RPM but it's a good one non the less if true. Higher torque would only serve to bridge the gap between the level of force received through your wheel and the true wheel torque in a real car (provided the FFB is not beyond the wheel torque of the real car)? And so without a faster RPM wheel compared to the true rpm of the cars [edit]steering*[/edit] wheel (and provided not beyond the rpm of the real car), we won't receive that same level of nuance in the feedback through the wheel?

What I'm trying to saying (terribly) is that both are important but perhaps the is a point at wheel wheel torque needs not be any higher to actually feel "something" but that RPM has a higher contributing factor to that better "feel" in the feedback and it still has room to improve. Given these assumptions, might explain Fanatec's choice in motor?

In the event that what I just wrote made zero sense in English or any other language, please don't persecute me....too harshly. Despite English being my primary language as well.

 

[thuGG]

However, the lack of customer support and the way customers are treated leaves a lot to be desired.

Thankfully my experience is different with customer support. I contacted them about my broken CSW, they asked me to describe the problem, asked to reinstall firmware/drivers to ensure it wasn't a software problem. After that they asked me to send the wheel to them, and they refunded me for the shipping. Right now my CSW is on the way back to me

 

[whiplash]

Thankfully my experience is different with customer support. I contacted them about my broken CSW, they asked me to describe the problem, asked to reinstall firmware/drivers to ensure it wasn't a software problem. After that they asked me to send the wheel to them, and they refunded me for the shipping. Right now my CSW is on the way back to me

I have to say that my few contacts with the support (1 broken gt3rs from the second batch, 1 broken board on my csp v1) were outstanding, i never had to wait more than 5 days for new hardware. Maybe the US-Support is the problem? Although i'm still very happy with my wheel i will save money till i can buy me a csw sometime, maybe if first issues are solved. I admit that there where some glitches first, but as i see it, fanatec are really working on it.

 

[GTFREAK]

Maybe the US-Support is the problem?

I think you may be on to something there.

 

[elcoco]

The csw is just perfect now with the build 118

you can adjust the smoothy so you can encrease the ffb ,and reduce the force in the wheel to have reel fell

i'm very happy , the ffb is amazing

thx isi

 

[mikem]

Do you not need a high RPM motor to more successfully catch the car from instability (e.g. a snap oversteer situation, etc)? I'm not saying that's the only reason for a high RPM but it's a good one non the less if true. Higher torque would only serve to bridge the gap between the level of force received through your wheel and the true wheel torque in a real car (provided the FFB is not beyond the wheel torque of the real car)? And so without a faster RPM wheel compared to the true rpm of the cars [edit]steering*[/edit] wheel (and provided not beyond the rpm of the real car), we won't receive that same level of nuance in the feedback through the wheel?

What I'm trying to saying (terribly) is that both are important but perhaps the is a point at wheel wheel torque needs not be any higher to actually feel "something" but that RPM has a higher contributing factor to that better "feel" in the feedback and it still has room to improve. Given these assumptions, might explain Fanatec's choice in motor?

In the event that what I just wrote made zero sense in English or any other language, please don't persecute me....too harshly. Despite English being my primary language as well.

What you presented makes perfect sense. There's a reason why Fanatec chose the higher rpm motors for the CSW (and the CSR Elite) wheel. The CSW (and CSRE) also uses two motors the same way Logitech design the G25/G27. Using two high rpm motors achieve a faster response than using one higher torque motor.

But the problem with the CSW is when you take into account the weight of the steering wheel especially the BMW GT2 rim. The thing weighs close to 5 lbs. There's no denying that the CSW motors are able to drive the GT2 rim and that the FF is strong but the question is that the amount of low level FF that will be lost not only due to the dampening caused by the heavy rim but also due to the CSW being belt-driven. Unlike gear driven wheel like the G25, a belt driven wheels are inherently self-damping. Essentially, what's the point of using higher rpm motors if you're going to damp the hell out of it. Perplexing to say the least. To make matter worse, despite the using QR connection for the rim, there's no easy way for the user to simply click in a wheel of his/her choice.

One thing users of CSW might want to question is that whether the smoothness they're feeling from using the wheel is at the expense of details. You can achieve smoothness rather easily- remove any all spurious details via damping but what that will also do is remove some the good low level signals. Of course, you can always increase the FF but at some point you're driving the motors into distortion and clipping. The good thing is that the heavy rim (and its damping effect) will make that seems less obvious except that you won't notice the fact that you're killing the motors.

This is not to imply anything but a simple fact. The motors used in the CSW is a pair of Mabuchi R550 or some other variant of the same motor. If you look around you can buy a R550 for around $10-15 dollars each. The T500RS use a variation of the Buehler 1.13.044.XX motor (the last two digit refers to the different variations) with a built in HALL encoder. Here's a pricing in Euros of another similar variation without the built in encoder: http://tiny.cc/teiimw

 

[clock]

i talk to soon, yesterday my ffb get broken...(little movement and wheel turned off).
and now after 1 o 2 laps the ffb goes off but the rest is working i could steer the car and use buttons..
tonight i will sent the emails and videos to fanatec...
Base CSW (ffb doest not work)..
CSP v2, failing on PS2 and USB (throttle pedal small movements and some times did not detect it)..

I will post here their answer..

 

[DrR1pper]

...

This is not to imply anything but a simple fact. The motors used in the CSW is a pair of Mabuchi R550 or some other variant of the same motor. If you look around you can buy a R550 for around $10-15 dollars each. The T500RS use a variation of the Buehler 1.13.044.XX motor (the last two digit refers to the different variations) with a built in HALL encoder. Here's a pricing in Euros of another similar variation without the built in encoder: http://tiny.cc/teiimw

Interesting price difference between the two. Assuming that the relative retail prices of these two different motors are the same for fanatec and thrustmaster, the (single?) motor employed by TM are anywhere between 3-4.5x the cost of the two combined in Fanatec's.

You rightly pointed out that the Buehler 1.13.044.XX motor comes with a built in HALL encoder (which is brilliant), and I am going to assume the Mabuchi R550 does not (or if it does, then it maybe possess crappy pots?, that are not being unutilised) because the CSW/CSR-Elite takes it's measurements directly from the main steering axle. I think it's also a HALL effect sensor for the fanatecs based on the internal images (looking at the DirectSensor encoder wheel/disc).

My question is, could the vast difference in cost of each motor be due to TM's choice in motor which has a built in Hall effect sensor? If memory serves correctly, the price jump from a pot to a hall effect sensor can be quite substantial.

 

[DrR1pper]

Here's a little comparison of the Bühler1.13.044.XX (TM) vs Mabuchi R550:

Bühler (T500 total)
Torque : 150 mNm
RPM : 3,000 rpm
Power : 65 W
Diameter : 52 mm


Mabuchi
Torque : 41.7 mNm
RPM : 13,540 rpm
Power : 60 W
Diameter : 38.5 mm

2x Mabuchi (CSW/CSR-Elite total)
Torque : 83.4 mNm
RPM : 13,540 rpm
Power : 120 W
Diameter : 38.5 mm (x2)


Difference

Torque: CSW/CSR-Elite = 56% T500 output

RPM: CSW/CSR-Elite = 451% T500 output

Does that then mean CSW/CSR-Elite = 252% T500 HP?



Based on what i'm hearing from CSW/CSR-Elite users that 100% FFB strength is really strong, i wonder how many T500 users are using the full 100% on theirs.

 

[whiplash]

I guess it's difficult to just compare the raw numbers. It's all down to specific gearing, and that would mean in fact that the mabuchi motor is stronger at the same rpm. Maybe i have got something wrong here, so please explain it to me!

edit: What i mean is that you neither have 3000 nor 13540 RPM DIRECTLY for FFB, there will alway be some gearing inbetween. And that would mean, at 3000 RPM, the mabuchi puts out some 188 mNm of Torque.