F1 80's Mod project seasons pack (historical demo released)

EmperorOfFinland said:
You could bring in the Osella. its slow as all hell but atleast it has a V8 it will make americans happy @doddynco
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lol, not all of us Americans feel that way!

All I know is whatever car comes in next will be a welcome addition, far and away my favorite mod to drive these days. The work that has gone into this mod really shows, so many little things that separate it from the rest.
 
The turbo lag on the Historic mod, at least for the Benneton is no joke like. I'm not able to drive it. The CE edition seems to have something weird going on with the power levels of the engines, similar to the issues with Chief's 1986 mod too. Would like to run this as a full champ season but can't with any of the 3 mods right now unfortunately :(
 
AfarNUFC said:
The turbo lag on the Historic mod, at least for the Benneton is no joke like. I'm not able to drive it. The CE edition seems to have something weird going on with the power levels of the engines, similar to the issues with Chief's 1986 mod too. Would like to run this as a full champ season but can't with any of the 3 mods right now unfortunately :(
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Might be difficult to manage but I can assure you it is very accurate. Try turning the boost down - you don't have to run at the default 3.7 bars.
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I have been driving the engines tuned at around 2.3-2.7 bars and on the bmw there is approximately around 2 seconds of turbolag so on jacrepagua i had to apply throttle at the mid point of both hairpins so the turbo would kick in at the exit 2 seconds later.

One tip is that when it finally kicks in you lift throttle quickly and gently apply it back up. as when the turbo is spooled up the turbolag is reduced. also a good differential tune that matches the power and coast values helps with it. also more preload smooths out the turbokick.
The biggest thing you can do is to equalise the coast and power value endresults as much as you can. and that will work for most part.
 
Another little driver tip for dealing with the power of these cars is something I heard from riding motorbikes in the wet: On corner exit, a bad thing to do is to try and use a higher gear to stay low in the rev range in order to limit the power available. It is the most natural thing to do because as a driver, you think, "I need less power so I should not drop another gear to give me a cleaner exit".

The problem is that this leads to a much higher wheel speed groundspeed difference once the boost/wheelspin does kick in. It's more controllable and faster to be in the gear that puts you high in the power band as you're straightening out the car on exit (9krpm+ with the BMW engine) so that the rev limit acts as a wheel speed limit (very primitive traction control).

Here is the extrapolated power curve showing what happens with the BMW in qualifying with around 5.4 bars 1280bhp@11500rpm. Orange line shows race trim around 3.7 bars.

The dyno run I posted has the rev limit at 9500rpm - they are trying to look after this engine. The extrapolation still works as the wastegate is only just beginning to open at 9500rpm on their dyno run.


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Yes, I've turned the turbo down too, also I lowered the throttle sensitivity which seems to help. Also gearing (closer together) if possible, depending on the track is another one so I can try and keep the turbo spooled up. Such a challenge to drive which I love! Keep posting tips and hints, I've got so far to go to get anywhere close to where I want to be in these cars.

I've watched some video's of Mansell talking about driving these cars and yes, timing the turbo out of the corners was so critical.
 
If you haven't already, you can set a control for -/+ turbo wastegate, so that you can change the turbo boost on the fly. Starting low and building up as you complete tidy laps is a good way to get into driving well with over 4 bars.

I think some of these drivability issues may be coming from the tires not being up to temperature - after a recent update they are very difficult to get up to temperature. I'll be reviewing that again for the next update.
 
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i think what makes the cars harder to drive is that there is around 150-300hp more power on the car than if the car would use the boost pressures used 4 years earlier. With 2.3-2.7 bar the car is still quite driveable but if you almost double the pressure the car becomes really jolty aswell so instead of having 300hp and to 600hp you have 300hp to 900hp and that seems to catch people up as you have to legimately max out preload and also lift throttle when turbo spools up after the corner and reapplying it back. when the 600hp really is not that big of a deal usually in terms of power.

This also makes these cars a whole different beast to drive since it has 1.5x the power of the car 4 years earlier.

The gearing should be optimised so the turbo is always spooled up and if not you shift down and get turbo spooled. also one trick that work is the senna throttle blip to keep turbo spooling up.

 
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I’m by no means an expert, and yes whilst the cars are difficult to drive there are techniques to assist and also aids to assist with :) looking forward to the next car.
 
Also when the mod is released in full I’m assuming each team will be positioned in the correct pit garage using the 1986 track pack?
 
EmperorOfFinland said:
The gearing should be optimised so the turbo is always spooled up and if not you shift down and get turbo spooled. also one trick that work is the senna throttle blip to keep turbo spooling up.
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lol! THAT technique was one of the biggest complaints against rF2 AI. Mostly eradicated in the last full update. Big applause when it happened.
 
Hi All,

For some reason in Brazil AI usually do 2 laps in Qualy then going in to the pits where they fail to find their spots. After that after a while they teleprot into the box and they never came out.

Is there anybody who experience the same?
 

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How have you guys dealt with power delivery on high boost settings? I'm struggling with throttle response on a high boost engine mod.
As far as I understand rF2 just has a single boost target setting that you have to manually toggle between. So no option for boost target-by-throttle position like on real cars, and no option for a pre-turbo throttle to have a similar effect like they had on the actual F1 turbo cars.
I've been trying to get the DumpValve setting to help here. But can't get it to actually do anything. (not implemented, or code bug maybe?)
Is there some other way to solve the runaway boost (up to target boost pressure) at part throttle issue?
 
Oskar said:
How have you guys dealt with power delivery on high boost settings? I'm struggling with throttle response on a high boost engine mod.
As far as I understand rF2 just has a single boost target setting that you have to manually toggle between. So no option for boost target-by-throttle position like on real cars, and no option for a pre-turbo throttle to have a similar effect like they had on the actual F1 turbo cars.
I've been trying to get the DumpValve setting to help here. But can't get it to actually do anything. (not implemented, or code bug maybe?)
Is there some other way to solve the runaway boost (up to target boost pressure) at part throttle issue?
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If youre talking about the 1986 cars in specific the main problem is that the cars run 3-5 bars of boost and to get turbo to spool up especially with the BMW cars means the turbo takes anywhere from 1-2 seconds to spool up. The senna throttle blip works midcorner to keep the pressure up as the engine goes from 300hp to 900hp in 1-2 seconds and that burns up the rear tires.

Based on my own driving experience the car does indeed mimic how it would be in 1980s. the difference is that nowadays they can electronically spool the turbo with batteries to eliminate most of the turbolag but in 1980s the turbo would take time to accelerate since at first you have low amount of exhaust gas spinning it and it would accelerate slowly. but the more it spins the more boost it feeds to engine and it creates more exhaust gas meaning it starts to spin even faster and its a runaway reaction as more gases mean faster turbo and faster turbo means more boost what increases the gasses.

but this also means with cars like BMW on the 1986 mod is that you have to apply the throttle at the apex so the turbo is working at the exit of a corner.

If your engine is overboosting above the set limit that you have. you have to assign these values to it.

Wastegate=(-5000,0,23500,1.0) // minimum relative boost pressure (to desired), minimum wastegate opening, max relative pressure, max opening

So here the minimum relative pressure is -5000 or -0.5 bars, then the minimum waste gate opens at 0 pressure, the max pressure it goes to is 23500 or 2.35 bars and its max opening is 1.0 so it bleeds off all the gasses from that. this means the turbo boost stabilises at the max boost level. the car has since the waste gate will open at 2.35bars. This also means that even if i run similar turbo to the 1986 mod instead of the turbo going 90-130k mine does only around 75-90k

BoostTurboPressure=(182500,10000) is set to be higher than that it means the engine will boost higher. its 1.825 bars and it has 6 settings on it. so its 1.925, 2.025,2.125,2.225,2.325 so the last boost level useable peaks at that value. i do have push to pass that goes to 2.525 Bars. so the max wastegate max relative pressure needs to be somewhat close to the max boost turbo pressure.

If you want to tweak the turbo curve response you need to tweak the

TurboInertia=2.8e-4
TurboFriction=(0.55,0)
TurboStaticFrictionWatts=1350

All these values indiviually. and when you got them. you need to tweak them

Here is a turbo that spools up at 7000rpm

TurboInertia=2.8e-4
TurboFriction=(0.55,0)
TurboStaticFrictionWatts=1350
TurbineFlowTable=(0,0.060722)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1,0)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.2,0.05)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.4,0.12)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.6,0.2)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.8,0.35)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2,0.5)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.2,0.61)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.4,0.7)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.6,0.77)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.8,0.81)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3,0.83)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.2,0.835)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.4,0.83)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.6,0.82)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.8,0.81)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4,0.785)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.2,0.765)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.4,0.73)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.6,0.71)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.8,0.67)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5,0.64)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.2,0.63)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.4,0.62)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.6,0.61)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.8,0.58)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6,0.52)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.2,0.48)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.4,0.32)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.6,0.26)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.8,0.2)
TurbineFlowEffects=(7,0.1)

To determine when the turbo starts to spool up and when it stops to spool up.

It will require quite alot of trial and error to do that since the second value determines how easily the turbine spins. so if you increase the lower values to be higher the turbo spools up easier.

TurboInertia=1.9e-4
TurboFriction=(0.25,0)
TurboStaticFrictionWatts=750
TurbineFlowTable=(0,0.089722)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1,0)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.2,0.61)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.4,0.65)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.6,0.65)
TurbineFlowEffects=(1.8,0.65)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2,0.74)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.2,0.71)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.4,0.78)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.6,0.74)
TurbineFlowEffects=(2.8,0.78)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3,0.8)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.2,0.81)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.4,0.805)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.6,0.79)
TurbineFlowEffects=(3.8,0.77)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4,0.74)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.2,0.71)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.4,0.68)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.6,0.65)
TurbineFlowEffects=(4.8,0.61)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5,0.57)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.2,0.53)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.4,0.48)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.6,0.43)
TurbineFlowEffects=(5.8,0.38)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6,0.32)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.2,0.28)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.4,0.22)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.6,0.16)
TurbineFlowEffects=(6.8,0.12)
TurbineFlowEffects=(7,0.1)

Here is turbo that spools up at 5500rpm

So these values should get you started on tweaking the turbo. keep in mind you also have to tweak the compressor too to optimise it too.


CompressorTable=(17500,0.0623)
CompressorPressRatio=(1,0.2)
CompressorEfficiency=(0,0.5)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0
CompressorPressRatio=(1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.629,0.623,0.618,0.609,0.661,0.582,0.484,0.379,0.281,0.196,0.129,0.081,0.047,0.026,0.014,0.007,0.003)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0
CompressorPressRatio=(1.184,1.193,1.181,1.132,1.025,1.008,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.603,0.67,0.715,0.725,0.669,0.582,0.484,0.379,0.281,0.196,0.129,0.081,0.047,0.026,0.014,0.007,0.003)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.019
CompressorPressRatio=(1.386,1.386,1.387,1.371,1.294,1.136,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.577,0.647,0.701,0.734,0.732,0.642,0.484,0.379,0.281,0.196,0.129,0.081,0.047,0.026,0.014,0.007,0.003)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.037
CompressorPressRatio=(1.737,1.737,1.736,1.734,1.724,1.668,1.501,1.217,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.532,0.603,0.664,0.713,0.746,0.757,0.703,0.51,0.281,0.196,0.129,0.081,0.047,0.026,0.014,0.007,0.003)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.058
CompressorPressRatio=(2.362,2.362,2.361,2.36,2.36,2.36,2.357,2.326,2.178,1.799,1.272,1,1,1,1,1,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.451,0.519,0.584,0.645,0.697,0.738,0.766,0.778,0.753,0.593,0.258,0.081,0.047,0.026,0.014,0.007,0.003)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.08
CompressorPressRatio=(3.375,3.389,3.403,3.417,3.432,3.446,3.46,3.474,3.485,3.465,3.323,2.935,2.288,1.483,1,1,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.324,0.381,0.441,0.501,0.56,0.616,0.667,0.71,0.744,0.768,0.78,0.723,0.494,0.24,0.014,0.007,0.003)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.104
CompressorPressRatio=(4.375,4.389,4.403,4.417,4.432,4.446,4.46,4.474,4.485,4.465,4.323,3.935,3.288,2.483,1.5,1,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.265,0.324,0.381,0.441,0.501,0.56,0.616,0.667,0.71,0.744,0.768,0.78,0.723,0.494,0.24,0.014,0.003)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.104
CompressorPressRatio=(5.102,5.114,5.13,5.146,5.181,5.195,5.223,5.23,5.245,5.237,5.174,5.012,4.403,3.843,2.711,1.332,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.199,0.265,0.324,0.381,0.441,0.501,0.56,0.616,0.667,0.71,0.744,0.768,0.78,0.723,0.694,0.34,0.084)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.15
CompressorPressRatio=(5.602,5.614,5.63,5.646,5.665,5.681,5.695,5.723,5.73,5.745,5.674,5.403,4.903,4.011,2.978,1.732,1)
CompressorEfficiency=(0.035,0.084,0.11,0.134,0.146,0.196,0.25,0.307,0.364,0.42,0.472,0.519,0.558,0.589,0.615,0.64,0.68)
CompressorSurgeLineFlow=0.19

Both engines run this same compressor for example.

Here is the Straight 4 and V6 engines that i currently have. you can take the values there and experiment with them and see how they work.
 

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Hi mate thank you for asking. I'm just taking a break on the project over the summer as I don't really like being at my computer much during the warm weather. I'll be back in the late autumn/winter with the intention of finishing the project in that push. All the best for now and expect to see the big releases around the end of the year.
 
Does anyone know how to fix 1986 turbo issue? All three 1986 mods have broken turbos

Only the recent one that has only Brabham, Benetton and McLaren have no issues with turbos
 
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