Extremely Dangerous Unexpected Behavior in rF2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by prceurope, Jun 2, 2021.

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  1. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    But the question is why use this high force wheels at their max output and then having to dampen the high forces at the software level? The safety measures are more reliable at the firmware level in the wheel.
     
  2. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    I agree with the first sentence. That’s why I suspect Moza not only dampens 300km/h collisions, but may dampen other similar forces, whether desirable or not(e.g coming from historic formula car without power steering). I don’t agree with the second sentence because it’s generally impossible to know the source of the signal. In game you can e.g. detect it’s a collision.
     
  3. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Registered

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    Hey guys, use a trusty G27 and you will never have any of these safety problems :D! Who needs FFB powerful enough to break an arm and a leg ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2024
    Bernat and Marcel Offermans like this.
  4. Kronzky

    Kronzky Registered

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    It's not a matter of overall forces, but *sudden spikes*. And it's not a dampening either, but a total cutoff, i.e. if I crash, I may still get a jerk from the fence I go through first, but then, for the final impact, there's absolutely no feedback. It's like the wheel is turned off.
    Same thing for race restarts (which might be a sudden jolt because of the wheel's positional reset). There's absolutely nothing on my wheel when this happens. (So I assume that's all filtered out by Moza's software.)

    Also, we're talking about spikes that are in the "crash range", i.e. so extreme that they would only happen IRL if you actually crashed the car. And you can filter those out without losing any fidelity during normal driving. It just seems that not all wheelbase manufacturers bothered to do it so far.

    Oh, I still remember my G27 wanting to break my desk whenever I hit something! That thing was rattling like it's gonna blow up any second.
    Not anymore with my DD wheel...
     
  5. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    So your wheel never centers on race restart in rF2?
    I believe IRL crashes can produce way above 25Nm(of course no one desires such forces in a sim). I think you should get lower force spikes(but still in 25Nm range) when driving over some high curbs IRL. Is it also filtered out by Moza wheelbases?

    I don't think it's that simple. When driving historic high down-force cars like F1 or Group C. etc. you may want to get/simulate 25Nm forces as these cars could often generate >30Nm forces IRL (without collisions or driving over high curbs).
     
  6. Kronzky

    Kronzky Registered

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    Nope. I have to straighten it out myself at race start.

    I can feel some curbs quite violently. And there are some historic tracks (60's Oulton seems to be the worst) that I can't really drive properly, as the bumps are too violent.

    I don't drive any high-downforce cars, so I can't talk from experience, but I don't see the issue here.
    We're talking about *extreme spikes*, e.g. your wheel turning 180º all of a sudden, or going from 0 - 25Nm in a millisecond. That stuff doesn't happen IRL unless you crash. And those situations can be filtered out without loss of driving fidelity.
     
  7. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    ok so from your description it seems like Moza generally does a good job of filtering unwanted FFB (collisions etc.) without compromising other strong effects one might desire.
    Or you drive over high curbs or big bumps at high speeds.
     
  8. TonyM

    TonyM Registered

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    Here some IRL steering (Porsche 963):
    @8:58 min
     
  9. Kronzky

    Kronzky Registered

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    That's sort of how it feels on Oulton...
    But what would be the point of FFB fully simulating violent impacts?
    FFB is supposed to give you additional information — information that's not available via visuals or audio.
    If I crash into a wall (or into a high curb) I don't need FFB to tell me how hard the impact was. I'm very much aware that I hit something already...

    And before anybody brings up the "immersion" argument — If you want immersion, then the wheel breaking your wrists would be the first, mandatory thing. Then the whole wheel, along with all your other hardware would stop working for good, and you'd have to go out and buy a new setup. And then install it. And then buy a new copy of the software. And content. And install that.
    And you do this every. time. you. crash. That's what real "immersion" would look like...
     
  10. TonyM

    TonyM Registered

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    I agree that it would be good to just cap the violent impacts.
    To me it should be the easiest on the wheelbase software as the manufacturer knows then how much is too much/ dangerous.

    I for myself have learned that in Sim racing as soon as I feel that I will crash I just raise my 2 hands!
    Unfortunately this is sadly not applicable when someone crashes into my car and this is one of the reason why I don't like so much online sim racing (if I would be able to be much much faster I would however be with people who crash less, and most probably never crash into someone else).
     

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