It is interesting what you say, but I don't think that is the reason for sometimes a lack of people. I know what I'm about to say is in regards to bikes, but hey. In some ways it would be the same for high tech race cars too. I remember reading about a bike journo who had a chance to ride some of the MotoGP bikes at the end of the season, may have been 2007-8. He was a quick guy, but not on the MotoGP skill level obviously... What I remember him saying was is that the bikes felt horribly numb and really freaky to ride slowly, as it is only once they are being pushed hard, that they start to react and give feedback to the rider. He was going as quick as he felt comfortable, but it wasn't enough for the tyres and brakes to keep a high level of heat. You want the chassis to flex a bit, gone are the days of building the stiffest frame possible, as it hurts feeling for the rider and makes it bloody awful to ride. Similarly, they could probably engineer the bike to work well for that Journo, at his lower speeds. Make it a bit softer and supple so he can at least get a grasp on what its doing. Stick Casey Stoner on it though, and it will probably be terrible, as he needs something which can handle the much higher forces and speeds he's doing on the bike. In some ways, thats why what I've read about NkP and AC has put me off. Tweaking things to be driveable everywhere, no matter what angle you are sliding at XD Doesn't seem right, but regardless, I'll have a crack at the demo when it comes out. Also, you really need a few laps to warm some of the cars up properly The Megane for me takes like 5 and sometimes more laps to get a decent amount of heat in the tyres, as they have no tyre warmers in that series. Just drive it to the limits, when the rear starts to hop around, you know you are being a bit eager with the throttle, if it starts to lazy spin, you've done something wrong somewhere to give it that extra bit of momentum the tyres can't handle. Don't expect the game to bend to your driving skills and style, you need to adapt and work with it.
There are AIDS you.. well that didnt sound right now did it... Theres things you can turn on to help while learning a track/car, traction control, abs, racing line, etc... try them out.
I'm not exactly a "noob" but I dont bother with online racing either. I had a go on one sim once and it was full of silly bar stewards who like to deliberately wipe people out by driving around the track the wrong way etc. That and people who take things too seriously (like a certain bloke from a well known internet racing program who had a hissy fit and called someone out on the internet because he claimed he blocked him during a race). I really aint got the time or patience for that sort of crap. I 've got enough serious things going on my life at the mo without taking race sims too seriously. That said, I might take the plunge again sometime and have a proper go at this online malarky. I couldn't really give a toss if I finish 1st (highly unlikely that, mind!) or last as long as I enjoy meself.
You're missing the point. I don't have to turn AIDS on in a real car to get around a track conservatively. You use AIDS in real cars to minimize the affects of overdriving the car because of the lack of experience. As I've stated, I'm not trying to run hot laps or overdrive the car. I'm doing nothing but running a conservative lap to get used to the cars or the line of the track.
That pretty much proves my point. I would expect a car tuned for speed and driving on the edge to be tighter and less dossel when driving it conservatively. But in this case, the cars are overly loose and have a lack of grip making them loose, not tight.
Don't think you quite followed me mate When pushed hard, they give the feel and feedback to get some handle on how much grip you have, and what you can do to the car. When driven slower, the feedback is reduced, grip can drop as it is no longer flexing as it should. Hard for that person to drive/ride. Some of these cars have massive negative cambers front and rear, if you can't push it fast enough in the turns, then you may find it hard to build temperature on the outer half of the wheel, plus your contact patch wont be a decent size. These are just my ideas though, that's what I think. Also, as sad as it sounds, not everyone should be able to drive these top spec cars real fast. I don't actually really care how you are driving, be it online/wherever. How anyone can have issue with someone trying to learn a car is beyond me. We have all been in that spot before. But proclaiming a sim is not realistic because you can't drive it is a bit wrong. I have always had trouble with F1 cars in any sim, I can drive round, but it takes me aaaaggess to adapt my reactions to the speed of everything. I stick with the slower open wheelers and GT cars.
Sounds to me you talk like someone who says GPL is like driving on ice ( no offence meant ) I can under drive rFactor2 with a bad setup and make it spin no worries. Do I think any sim has ever got all it's mods, tyres and physics right, no. So for your driving style I may have to adjust setup on a certain car a bit strange. This is why sims have abnormal level of variation in their setups. Or we would all use the same setups........... It is all tied to the sims engine. It is like putting a different engine in a different chassis in real cars does not always work. Some cars work better then others in a certain sim. Then throw mods with altered physics into the equation, well........
That's all heresay though. The fact is, these are their "mods" that are supposed to be "right". And they aren't. I can underdrive a car and make it spin too. But there should be some control in the effort to not spin when you're purposely attempting not to.
I get your point exactly. I understand the physics of the tires, etc. If you're talking cambers, those large cambers are on the front and I'm having no issue with front grip. There's far less camber in the rear and should be MUCH easier to control.
During peak hours there are usually enough rooms active to keep me happy, still not many players, but, enough of a selection to satisfy my Mod/Circuit desires. Problem being, living in New Zealand and playing within an Oceanic timezone it's a little difficult to play at what is/would be 'my' peak time - eg. usually only 2-4 rooms available. Still, I enjoy it when and while I can
3 deg on the rear is pretty damn big in my experiences. You really need video to be able to come to some form of conclusion. I've seen some vids of guys driving round with the rear breaking loose, holding off the throttle till the car is straight on every corner. Seemed to me like they weren't getting enough weight onto the rear wheels using the throttle, maybe they didnt have enough control over their throttle use...who knows. Maybe you need setup work, to try and get some more weight on the rear, or use the weight transfer in a way that suits you. Just curious, have you driven the Skippy in rF2? If you have (regional or National version), what is your opinion on it?
Some nice Top Gear footage, especially for zim2323: The interesting part starts at 7:05 when the Hamster explains what is going on with an underdriven F1 car. Also have a look at the KnownIssues.txt, to be found in your rFactor 2 installation folder: So the tire model is not finished yet and ISI know it, so there is nothing to fix really, just "some" more work to be done. Anyway, depending on the vehicle, tires play a significant role already. Underdriven, meaning too slow to get heat into them, they are rather like made from plastic, which is basically the form rubber has when below a certain temp threshold. A certain Dave Kaemmer wrote some interesting info on the chemical properties of tires or rubber, which can be ignorantly summed up as: Rubber too cold is plastic. I hazard the assertion, that the faster the car can go, the more horrible it is to drive slowly. Have you even tried different cars, which cars? I consider myself one of the faster bunch, but I am a little rusty, so was conservative as well in my first laps, I cannot share your experiences. Driving conservatively, meaning doing everything rather slowly and having a look at the speedometer every once in a while, for lack of speed sensation, I had no problems going around the track of choice. But building speed, still far below the performance potential of the car, and doing some hasty inputs is a recipe for spinning out. Have a look at the speedo more often, because everytime i sit one of my friends down in front of my wheel and let them have a go, the problem seemed to be the lack of sense of speed. One can only do so much to provide it in a simulation. And no, I don´t want to hear anybody suggesting I use a "realistic" field of view, I´ve tried and it was even worse, like going in slow motion. However, I do want to see some more work done on the tire model sooner rather than later, because the roll over tendency of the Renault Clios is just ridiculous, and Tim hinted towards the tires not losing enough grip when on two wheels. Cheers, Marcus P.S.: Newbies, afraid to join online races, don´t be. Just use your mirrors and be predictable, hold a steady line. The faster ones will find their way around you, no worries. What I cannot stand is people all over the place and me crashing into them at random due to that.
For you guys who consider themselves noobs , come over to http://www.simracers4life.com/ and check us out , we hold regular FUN meets with a mix of drivers fast and slow , we have all been the new guys (and Girl) at sometime so we can appreciate nerves and mistakes and make allowances , we race for fun its not life and death , if we make a mistake and screw someones race we are all big boys and apologise to each other and try not to do it again . We currently race a mix of cars fast (ISI F2 ) and slow (Clio) and other classes as well on track at the same time and it works ok , everyone is watching their mirrors carefully and trying to be aware of what is going on around them , its making some intresting racing as well as improving skill levels .
Don't be scared to come online - seriously guys, that's ridiculous! A few people can be dicks, but mostly we are just here to help! Just announce that you are a bit new, and you will find that 95% of us will be extremely welcoming, we help with setups, and even do drafting laps with you. You REALLY need to lighten up and come online.... MUCH more fun (when there are no dicks). "The Drivers Lounge" is run by me, has no flag rules and invulnerability is on. This allows you to just lap and lap, and just continue on after crashes. No stress and helpful advice, simple mods. Come on in.
The best part of racing online is racing with a regular group of friends and racing with TeamSpeak going. A league is great too because a competitive racing series keeps you sharp and gives you something to practice when you are bored. I like pick up races with friends and league racing. It's no fun either way if someone cleans you out (on purpose to pass it especially sucks), but when you have a regular bunch you drive with that sort of stuff happens less. Don't be afraid to drive online- you'll get much better that way. Others will give you tips and cooperative learning is more effective than trying to go it on your own. Find a regular server to race on. Others will do the same, you will start to recognize certain drivers and even if you don't use TS, you will build a relationship and get to know them on track. If you want to dip your toe in the water, try Bryan Birtwells F3 Fanatics server. You will find a regular group coming there if you can catch them when they are on. Keep visiting that server and you will catch them. Find a league where other drivers are on your skill level or are better. Racing with slower drivers will do nothing for you, but racing with equal or better drivers will make you better. It all comes back to cooperative learning.
Bryan's server is great. He puts a lot into it and does a great job - so much so I even slipped him some money. I have been using it a lot until I started running my own. We are cyber-neighbors now..>? EDIT: copypasta "The Drivers Lounge" server is now up and running after much testing..... We are starting our way up from the bottom, encouraging new and rookie drivers alike to find a regular, casual server alternative. Full per-driver statistics can (and no doubt will) be implemented eventually, but for now - with rF2 driver numbers what they are - just having an open server online with willing racers is a good start So.....run, run, as fast as you can, you can't catch me I'm........... .....come and say hello to the Gingerbread Man Right now - Lola's at Deuna City Circuit (an ISR vMod variation). See you in there for a lap or two? EDIT: Of course - it is rubbered to perfection - so can you beat 2 minutes flat?
One thing i must add, i love servers that have 10-15 mins quali sessions where the track surface is not rubbered in at all in the start of the session. It`s fascinating to start picking up more and more grip when the track surface starts rubbering in, and it`s all about to get the good laptimes in the end.
Good point. BTW can someone confirm that The Drivers Lounge can be connected to? GETMOD? EDIT: The only problem with that method frankwer, is that it requires enough drivers to rubber the track within qualifying time
