Dual Screens UPDATE ??????

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by YoLolo69, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    Guys, just opened this thread (sorry for the title) as I didn't want to steal the "Tripple screens UPDATE ?????" anymore, and to show you my interest about racing simulation like rF2 (and other) using a dual screens configurations, instead of the usual triple screens surround view.

    <insert recorded laugh here>

    Yeah, I know I lose already half readers at this point, but if I'm right about human curiosity, I'm pretty sure a lot of people had at least jumped to the video few lines below even without reading this part, and now they come back, surprised to be surprised on the good side by what they saw ;) Welcome again! Let's continue.

    Yes, dual screens seems stupid I agree. Yes, 3 screens is the way to go, the goal to reach. How many of you have only one monitor? how many have a second monitor, plugged just for the Windows desk or forgotten in a closet somewhere, whatever size and resolution it have as we will not care (really)?, and how many have 3 monitors? Why such big bi-monitor community seems non existing around this place? A gap need to be filled.

    Oooppss, now I need to put the Video I talked about (already posted in the "Triple screen UPDATE ?????" thread). This is not my video, ande don't care which game it is showing, it's just to catch people attention:



    This is just a small example, I hope it will give you the envy to search for more pictures and movies of dual setup, and that you would like to continue reading. For those who played directly the video, please jump right after above laugh only once or you'll be stuck for ever, thanks.

    Interested? I personally really appreciate to be able to see the whole cockpit like this. Possibly it's just me, that's why I opened this thread.

    Let me explain quickly how you can set up an additional monitor even if it's not the same size, resolution, refresh frequency, etc. I said quickly as this is not for now the goal of this thread. The idea is to show you that it's not that stupid, it's easy, and if you have sparse monitor, TV, etc. to test it. The idea is also to open a discussion in this forum as I didn't found other recent thread talking about this. Of course, if you have the money, don't hesitate to go triple. In any case, dual screen is cheaper, can be possibly handled by your system without the need of CPU/GPU/Memory upgrade (like I was, and don't have the money anyway), so it may be a pretty good intermediary solution IMO, and with an immersive factor between one and three monitors IMO..

    I used the free software "softth" to set a dual screen (Multiview is locked to 3 monitors) using my usual TV 40 inch as central monitor, 1920x1080, and a "tiny" 26 inch monitor 1920x1200 to the side. Probably other free solution exist. This one is free, and FPS didn't go that low as I'm able to keep rF2 locked to 60 fps in this new configuration without changing any graphics settings in rF2 (GTX670 2Megs).

    softth => http://www.kegetys.fi/forum/index.php?topic=2123.0

    Setup is pretty easy, you will need to have something to get your monitors sizes (measure tape) and a calculator. You have a complete and simple "how to" one level upper than the link I provided. Your second monitor can have a different size, resolution and even refresh rate, no problem. You'll be able to setup this configuration without any pictures deformation, bezels computation included.

    So guys, what do you think about dual monitors setup?

    Edit: forget to add: I didn't resolved all problems here, mainly I'm trying to shift the virtual wheel to the center of my usual monitor like if I only had one monitor. Currently, as Softth make rF2 believe I have a bigger screen (monitor1+monitor2) the wheel appear at the center of both in the gap and that's bad. he easiest solution (as rF2 don't include keys to move the seat left/right) seems to be the RealHeadMotion plugin which include a horizontal shift parameter. I can't try it right now, I'll update this post later. Time to sleep...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2014
  2. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    Dual screen setup seems ridiculously awful and I'd never ever use it.
    One screen, triple screens or VR is the way to go for me.:)
     
  3. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    Well, I use triples but still think this is a great thread, as the OP says there must be a fair few folk out there with two monitors that may well give this a go, I was that man a couple of years ago, never got it sorted on two screens and this thread would have been a godsend. So thumbs up from me Yololo :)
     
  4. ViSo

    ViSo Registered

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    I think dual monitor is lack of one of the side monitors, you are still having one center monitor, and then add only one side monitor, I dont like it.
    I prefer single or VR or triples in that order (I already had triples and single, but not VR, I think VR is better than triples, atleast for me)

    Enviado desde mi Note 3 con tapatalk
     
  5. rogue22

    rogue22 Registered

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    I was going to get a few more monitors but I decided to wait.

    Once the rift gets into the mainstream, I don't think the need for multiple monitors for gaming will be necessary, just my opinion.
     
  6. Natureboy

    Natureboy Registered

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    Thanks YoLolo
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2014
  7. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    I mainly agree will nearly all opinion here. Of course, triple or Oculus Rift are the top notch solution, and I'm saving money for that. I'll be able to get such solution, and to upgrade all component of my computer to support that around year 2047 or 2048 according my excel sheet ;), so as I'm inpatient, I thought about this and discovered lot of people are currently using this dual screen configuration, so all shame to speak about it goes away. :p My tests also showed I don't lose that much FPS and can stay locked to 60fps, and that's great.

    In any case I think 2 monitor is better than one. People having 2 monitor currently have it turned of, or use it to display some telemetries (or Simvibe settings, etc.) as a second expended display set in Windows. Having the game itself in background expending the view, and where you can also put your extra HUD stuff (yes TV Plugin I'm mainly talking about you, or Trackmap, etc.) is IMO better than having those extra information displayed on your usual Windows extended screen. 2 monitor like we can see in this video is pretty cool in cockpit view IMHO. It could feel more weird for open wheeler but as I said, it could be use in that case for extra HUD elements.

    Softth only support Dx9 application right now, and they are working on a new DX11 version. As AC is DX10.1 minimum AFAIK the video above is probably made using another solution or ingame setting, in that case I think Windows should be set to create a virtual big monitor (NVidia surround or similar?). The great thing with Softth is the way you can set any kind of monitor together (with different resolution, size, refresh rate, etc.) without any picture deformation. You compute the main DPI setting of your central monitor, and then you instruct the sofwtare to use the same virtual DPI for all monitors around. Also, watching a replay in external camera view is simply great with such screen wall with disparate monitors ;)

    I also saw Softth can dispatch the display using different video card. I didn't test this yet as my TV and the extra monitor are plugged on the same GTX670, but I also have an old CRT I can plug in the R4000 (from the I7 core) VGA connector of my PC case so I should be able to expand even more my display like this. Could be funny to set it at the good height to support one of the external mirror of the car ;)

    I only have to test solution now to shift my virtual wheel to keep it at the center of my main monitor (like if I only was using my unique TV as usual) and as I said, RealHeadPluggin
    for now seems the easiest solution (not tested yet). Of course, if ISI can allow us to map 2 keys for horizontal seat movement saved by car (like AC do) or at least by editing INI or PLR files that will be top notch. I read than now we need to edit the MAS file of each car to do this, kind of heavy..
     
  8. MMartin

    MMartin Registered

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    Nice thread YoLolo... I'm waiting for your test with RealHead plugin :)
     
  9. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    Read Head Motion plugin (RHMp) unfortunately is not the solution :(

    That's logical, moving the seat left/right don't change the eyes targeted point. The seat position can be changed with this pluggin, but the view need also to be rotated. In other words, the convergence point at the horizon ("ligne de fuite" in French) need also to be changed, or the head need to be rotated.

    Without he plugin:
    View attachment 13242

    With the plugin, the wheel is centered, but my view goes to the left as it still watch to the same point:
    View attachment 13243

    So even if ISI Team create a way to move the seat Left/Right we will still have this problem if we cannot change the targeted point or can't rotate the view. Ideally, we need to be able, at least through an .INI file or the .PLR, to say to the sim, ok, whatever resolution I run my sim, the wanted center is this one x,y,z (delta from usual center) or this one (x,y)=> Virtual Center in pixel I want to use for my screen, where my horizon go far away.

    So for now, only the FreeCam mode can resolve this problem AFAIK. This is heavy, I never used FreeCam but I guess it's not saved, and you need to adjust the camera position, and the targeted viewpoint by moving the mouse each time, and you need to never touch even lightly the mouse or you view will jump elsewhere...

    Rotating the view is probably easily possible through plugin. RHMp can change the camera pitch, so I don't see any technical reason a plugin will not be able also to change the horizontal view. Using RHMp plugin to just shift the view is like...how to you say English people? take a plane to go shopping at the corner? ;) I'm pretty sure any plugin creator can make in few minutes a small plugin which allow you to do what I'm trying to reach... I'll complain about the 15seconds plugin delay at ISI when it will be done ;)

    Ok, I'll made tests with FreeeCam tonight...

    Edit: a crappy video from my phone showing a replay on this configuration. The small picture deformation is because I'm higher than my usual seat position:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2014
  10. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    I'm totally with you, I was looking at a triple setup last year but the rift caught my attention so I'm just holding out for that now.

    On topic though I'd like a second screen for telemetry/Hud related stuff but never got around to seeing if any plug ins allow this, got a couple of little screens doing nothing currently so I may see if this can be done.
     
  11. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    If you set your couple of extra monitor around the central one you will not have this virtual wheel center problem I meet with 2 monitors, and that's good. You'll be able to switch to the 'triple screens UPDATE??????" thread, lucky Guy! ;)

    With Softth you can build any kind of screens wall. I seen some impressive configurations on YT. I think I'll connect my old CRT monitor to the right (1024x768!) to get the equilibrium if I can't resolve my center problem. The good thing is that the resolution don't matter, it's the physical size of the screen which matter, as extra monitor use a kind of virtual DPI computed from the center screen. E.g.: my tiny 26inch monitor to the left have normally 1920x1200. Using soffth he "fall" to 1536 virtual pixel as it's smaller (regarding width) than my central TV. The goal is to have the same quality image than the central monitor without deforming the picture, and that perform pretty well.
     
  12. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    I wouldn't bet all your chips on the rift just yet. I've seen what seemed like a non biased review on the rift with a racing sim and he said with the low resolution it's extremely hard to see brake markers, turn in markers etc. He also said it's impossible to read your gauges with such low resolution. As someone who flight sims as well, I'm quite skeptical of the rift for racing and flight sims at the moment.
     
  13. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    Agree, the Oculus Rift will be good for some games, not all games where resolution is important. The enhanced version 1920x1080 have in fact 1920/2x1080 per eyes. better than previously, but pixel near your eyes like this are magnified a lot. Not sure it will beat a triple screen 1920x1080. Rift it's good for immersion (head captors, nearly full field of view, etc.), not sure for real driving...

    Back on topic: Anyway, I resolved my virtual centering wheel problem using a dirty trick. I'm not happy by the way I used, but I'm happy with the result as it's perfect. What I did is lying to Softth by adding a fake monitor to my right same size than the left one. In the configuration file I just gave a bigger viewport (Monitor left+Monitor central+monitor left) and bingo.

    The (huge) downside is now, even if I only see left and central screen, rF2 is running on a triple screen and fps goes down (Using rF2 screenshot key show the hided right part):

    Central Screen : 1920x1080 = 112 fps
    View attachment 13247

    Left+Central : 3163x1080 = 90 fps
    View attachment 13248

    Left+Central+Fake right : 4406x1080 = 78 fps
    View attachment 13249

    The good side is: Now I know my system can handle triple screen without the need to update my 2 years old computer (but buying an extra monitor). On above fps numbers I didn't change a single thing to any of my graphics settings. As I'm running between mid and mainly max, I have room to retrieve a good amount of fps by lowering them. Like this it's already OK when racing with 13 AI E.g. at Lime Rock Park with 13 Spec Miata I have an average fps of 50 fps which is near my goal of 60 fps. Good ! :)

    Now I'm not happy with my dirty trick, creating this fake and invisible right monitor eating lot of fps (around 22 fps per screen added) and this centering wheel and view problem can probably be resolved in few minutes by any ISI dev team member who come around, or a small plugin. Moving the view is probably really simple if you have the source code :cool:

    Ok, now time for the dirty phone video showing all is fine! The video is pretty bad and you have the feeling rF2 play 10 fps but I was between 65 and 90 fps (non private practice) :



    I know, the original goal was to see the whole cockpit by expanding to my right, and I added this extra screen to the left! That's because I have a wall at my right, so I need to find a way to move my rig to the left, or remove some wood at my right to put a monitor. In any case, even expanding to the left is pretty nice, and I'll be able to put HUD (TV Plugin?) to the side :)
     
  14. RNelson

    RNelson Registered

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    And the Rift isn't going to replace monitors on non-gaming situations so people will still have monitors on their desks. Personally I can't see spending for that on top of the monitors that I need for all the non-gaming stuff. And multiple monitors have their place on desks in non-game situations too. For many of us, the rift will be a luxury item that will never get purchased.
     
  15. rogue22

    rogue22 Registered

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    I've got 2 20 inch monitors just sitting around, would love this too. Post if you find something on it.
     
  16. rogue22

    rogue22 Registered

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    Just to clarify, I was referencing only to gaming, not for productivity use.
     
  17. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Nice thread Yolo. I got a 2nd screen doing nawt when racing, might as well try it and see what it does. thx :)
     
  18. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    The funny thing is now the Multiview choice is not grayed anymore for me as rF2 think I have 3 monitors ;) Saying that, I don't need to click that option. The fact is softth manage "virtual" pixel for side monitor, that mean I was able to exactly get the angle I wanted for this left monitor (around 40 degree from the central) just by lying in its configuration file. Changing the virtual pixel width and/or virtual pixel high allowed me to perfectly align all lines which go from central monitor to side screen. Normally this soft is made for a flat configuration, all monitor aligned, angle=0 in beetween. Anyway, changing this virtual sizes changes angles without deformation, so that's great, and don't hit any fps. Just great and simple ;) Yesterday I also tuned the bezel correction (space in between monitor aka monitor border) so I get rid of all deformation.

    The tutorial from the softth forum is pretty clear to follow, and when you first launch this software it create a first reference config fiag you will need to adjust. Just compute the reference DPI of your central monitor (it could be cm instead of inch, that really don't matter) by using measure tape and dividing width by your horizontal resolution (E.g. screen of my TV is 88cm witdt so my reference DPI is 1920/88=21.81) hand then, measure the internal display (without border) of your extra monitor(s), multiply by this reference DPI, and you'll get the virtual width and heigh for them. Do the same for the in between border (width*DPI= virtual pix size), feed the configuration file with that and you are OK. After that, you can tune like I did by making tries, adjusting some values, and you're done.

    Only problem I found: they have a flag in the config file called ZClear with valus 1 by default. They said it use in that case a ZBuffer to avoid rendering part of the virtual big screen not seen. This don't seems to work as taking a screenshot in rF2 show the full virtual monitor picture including none render part (the part upper than my left monitor and mainly the whole fake right monitor) and I can saw I lost 22 fps adding the right non seen monitor. If I can make this flag to work (or found an ISI config file where you can define a clipping zone?) I'll save lot of FPS (22 minimum).

    Now I'm able to have the central inside mirror and to view the left outside mirror of all car from cockpit and that's really great! It also bring me tons of new sense of speed (I have the feeling to go far faster for the same driving speed) even without touching my usual central FOv (45 degrees) as I can see the border of the road on my left moving faster.

    I'm really happy I wake up my sparse monitor! :)
     
  19. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I used softth to do two screens before I bought my third screen, worked fine.
     
  20. RNelson

    RNelson Registered

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    Driving with two monitors is certainly better than one even if it isn't perfect. I was able to setup both iRacing and AC for use with two monitors by editing one of the .ini files into thinking I had three monitors when I didn't - it is a little trickier in iR than AC. No need for softth in iR and AC. For those of us with limited space/budgets that only accommodate two monitors it would be nice to be able to edit this in rF2 rather than solely using the configuration tool. And I understand that this is not necessarily the simplest thing to change nor is it likely to be high on the priority list.
     

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