Driving standards question, regarding online crash.

I just put it up to ask the question, as me and Smithaz obviously see the incident completely the other way. I think he is 100% in the wrong where he thinks I am 100% in the wrong, I put it up to see what others think. In sim racing I think you need to have some common sense and realize when people wont see you and as you say he barely got his wing in line with my bumper so I think its fair enough just to take a regular line and let the guy following deal with any issues as he can actually see where he is in relation to the car in front but the guy in front wont have a clue about his position so he will just take the regular line as I did in that case.

 

if you have to do this for every incident on rf2 this forum would contain nothing but :/
Looks standard to me

 

I am not a fan of your negative and insulting attitude towards me Mart , I have made my excuses and admitted fault, so why carry on being insulting. I usually try to race fair and clean and most of the time that is what happens.
What view do you race in btw and what mirrors, this could be a factor here, I race with nose view and the 3 virtual mirrors so usually have a pretty good sense of where cars are behind me. If you race cockpit view with no virtuals then i can understand that you would be hindered.

 

Clearly back driver is wrong. I mostly have this rule that when I can't get passed 50% of my apponent, I just break and drive behind.

Time for a beer for you both

 

I was not a fan of your driving so we may be even on whos a fan of what lol and I dont think I am being overly negative towards you and its nothing personal as in an attack on your as a person. Its simply just showing your shocker of a drive in that one particular race as I never have cared to check anyone else before but just looked at that replay as I saw you type sorry twice earlier in the race wondering who caused the earlier incidents too. Then to my surprise you never bothered to for me when you hit me twice in a row and cleaned me up completely on a straight lol, not that its a huge deal though I would always say sorry in such incidents and that just makes us different.

I drive with cockpit but move the view as far forward as possible in a tintop so it wouldn't be far off the hood view and also have the 3 virtual mirrors up, I cant see if anyone is inline with my rear bumper and would love to know how you can. I always try my very best to race clean not just sometimes lol and cant remember the last time I took out 1 person let alone half the field in 6 laps .

No Idea how you think any view will allow you to see someones front wing inline with your rear bumper as a car has an A, B and C pillar. The rear bumper is a long way from any pillar and I think anyone not even up to the C pillar should at no point expect to be given any room. Contact from behind as you werent by any definition beside is always the fault of the driver behind in my view, but that's where we see things differently again. I just like to race and couldn't care for what position and find it quite boring getting pole and winning by a large margin would much prefer a battle from the back then a win at all cost attitude that some others may have.

I never wanted this to be a personal thing and just wanted to see others view on that incident as honestly I couldn't care as its just a virtual race even though things on your end could and should have been handled quite differently I think.

I personally have an issue exactly with the style of driving you showed in that race where someone that is quicker just punts his way through the slower cars if getting stuck behind. I think anyone could make every pass if they cared little if contact is made ruining the other guys race, same as driving in a way that little care is made if you stay on track or go off. We all want more people racing online and many new guys will be slower, so such driving should be avoided as much as possible especially by those that should be much better as they are clearly not noobs themselves.

If some people think that the guy in front has to block or else the guy behind cant decide when there is enough room to pass this would just ruin the racing experience for all even more. Race clean and fair give room and say sorry if you wreck someone pretty simple rules in my eyes but not to all I guess.

 

As i see it, rF2 community is very small. We all do mistakes sometimes, mostly because we don`t know the various drivers on servers and their driving style. Most of us is using public servers where there is n00bs and pr0s + those inbetweens, and we are still learning the car, track and so forth.

I have probably exploded many times on servers and said evil things, but calms down after a minute or two or three.....we just need to learn how to move on

 

I still think this thread has brought about an interesting question putting aside any of the personal crap, regarding how far along someone should be in order for the driver in front needing to leave room. I have nothing personally against Spinaz and just wanted to see others views on this particular incident as I found it very hard to see how the driver in front is in any way at fault other then I maybe should have blocked him which is something I dont like to do much of, maybe I could have edited the video differently but just wanted to show his history prior to the incident more to show that he was unlikely to ever back off even if there is no gap to go for as I see it in the replay. At the time I assumed he was behind and had no idea he would ever try for that move and would do it exactly the same every time, if I was the driver behind I would have gone for the inside and if I was only so far up would have backed off and looked for a better opportunity rather then making contact. At the point of contact if I was the guy behind I would also have backed off and not just kept the throttle on causing the guy to spin.

Maybe to settle personal disputes ISI could take a page from EA's book and add something like this to the game after 2 cars collide on track lol.

For those that think that would turn the sim into an arcade game should watch this.

 

Problem is everyone thinks they can drive with the same attitude as Senna, sorry but you can't.
This isn't reallife where everyone is constantly being watched and penalized, we have to play our own racestewards by driving with a bit of brain.
On top of that we have the issues that we have to deal with weird lagcontacts etc and trying to play like this is just asking for trouble.
If you didn't see him coming marty, pay attention because the Megane's mirror is pretty damn huge. But from what I read you DID see him and were just beign an ass by cutting him off.
Smithaz, if you see the gap closing brake and try again later. It's one of those closing wedges Brundle always talks about.
It could work with drivers with some situational awareness (or those who aren't too stubborn to leave room) but it doesnt work with everyone, especially not on rf2.

 

I did see him behind me and knew he was somewhere back there, I had no idea he would try and pass on the outside and I had no idea he was in anyway beside me. I never blocked him once and gave him plenty of room all the way around including the first time he hit me which had I blocked he may not have completely outbraked himself and taken me out as he wasn't in the position to make a pass that time either. As some others have even said I left him too much room and he saw a gap but was too far back to make a pass then and so locked up and made contact, I dont see the point in blocking and never intentionally block anyone though some suggest that is the way to deal with these people. If I take the normal racing line then if he is in the right spot and fast enough to make a move he easily can if hes way too far back then contact will be made as he did the entire race with me and everyone else due to poor driving.

In order for the guy infront to have to give space the other car needs to atleast get more then its front wing inline with their rear bumper, B pillar is standard even C pillar would be enough to give them some space. making contact with just a bumper then keeping on the gas and spinning the car infront out surely cant be considered fair driving.

If you see the video it shows the regular racing line which I did nothing different other then not going as wide on entry as normal because I saw him somewhere back there so left him some space, you can even see I am following the car infront as we both drift a little on the regular line to the left. The regular line is you slightly drift to the left as there is a flat right hand kink approaching so you obviously will move to your left and his position gave me no reason to not take a normal line as he wasn't beside me on my approach. If the guy behind can see the door closing though he simply needs to do something to avoid contact, if there is no where to go you have to lift off I would think. It is racing not a time trial and its for position not under blue flags so cars infront need to be driven around not through. Its not the guy in front's job to ensure someone behind has somewhere to go and you have every right to stick to the racing line in that case as I see it he needs to do something else to find a way by and avoid contact.

 

Gotta' put this to bed:

Smithy - for knocking martymoose off the track go and stand on the naughty step for 20 mins

Marty - no penalty

I jointly run with Acestumacher loads of leagues, & we are also the race stewards along with one other guy

 

Its healthy in a way to air this type of question as we have clearly seen very different interpretations of the "rules" in this thread. So discussing it illuminates what should happen.

In my view (shared by some above) the attacking driver is entitled to racing room only if he achieves significant overlap by the turn in point. Otherwise its just a barge.
But its is often a matter of degree. I recall Jonny Herbert making the call that Massa erred in India despite being ahead of Hamilton.
The skill is to pass clean or by pressure force an error or a compromised defensive line from the driver ahead that may give you greater exit speed and a pass later.
Or a braking move into the corner to claim the apex, but you also have to avoid contact and allow racing room.
Claiming the apex and using defensive positions works ok on slow corners where track position is king, but in faster sections the driver needs to optimise the racing line or his exit speed is lost.
Signed.....keeping a sense of humour
F1 1997 World Champion in single player
F1 2011 Constructor Champion #2 driver in Xbox league.
Skippy AI driver in RF2

 

Flame bait thread.

The attacking driver is entitled to racing room ... on the inside. If you try to overtake someone around the outside you're asking to be put into the grass or a wall. This is why you so very rarely see an overtake around the outside on a corner.

Having seen the video and read all the comments (yes, even the ones ending in "lol"!) in the video, I am going to say the fault lies entirely with Martymoose in this instance.

Marty: from your comments in the video, you should have known this guy was going to wreck at some point in the race. You should have let him through without a fight and waited for him to take out someone else in front of you.

 

Next time just upload the images, that bs text to make him look worse is unnecesarry.
And just so u don't miss it, you're gonna start thinking im just hammering on u this is purely about the inc on the straight towards the last chicane. The others don't need discussion, that's obviously bad driving from smithaz.

 

I find that quite confusing as he was overtaking me on the outside and the other incident he outbraked himself and nailed me on the inside because he locked up and he was never going to make the corner had I not been there.

He already took me out once and half the field out before finishing me off. maybe if I just pulled aside onto the grass he could have caught the leaders and taken them out letting me win the million dollar prize . In the final incident which is the first in the video which may be a bit confusing I was expecting to get nailed into the last chicane again as I was the lap before, I got a shock when he cleaned me up on the outside approaching the corner before the chicane.

So if you say trying to pass on the outside is asking to be put into the grass or the wall but then you say its completely my fault even though he was trying to pass me on the outside. Do you see how I am confused by your comments?

 

I am in no way offended but I am just finding it hard to understand as I was on the inside on the straight well before the fast right kink which is well before the last chicane, are you meant to give room to someone 100m+ before the next right hander on the outside alongside your rear bumper to give way for a chicane another 500m after that in the middle of a straight?

No matter what situational awareness I did know he was behind me but no idea he was going to try and go around the outside of the right hander from that position and why should I give him room on the outside when he is in such a poor position, had he been on my inside things would be different but he was in no mans land as I see it. I dont see any internal mirrors on my screen only the 3 virtuals and my awareness is good enough to have no incidents with anyone in 2 1/2 to 3 hrs of track time prior to this on the same server. The spotter doesnt even work in RF2 and since when were spotters used in circuit racing?

Here is a map of the track, he hit me half way up the straight between piratella and aqua mineralli, that is a straight before a right hand turn so isnt the person on the right on the inside?

http://www.speedeuroseries.com/wp-c.../2011-Imola-Racetrack-Romeo-Galli-Stadium.jpg

 

That is exactly the point I was making. The crash was going to happen to someone. Bruce Lee's "Fighting without fighting" says: "be somewhere else".

The two comments are unrelated.

Overtaking on the outside of a corner is insanely dangerous, and usually pointless to boot as it leaves the overtaker vulnerable to a defence as aggressive as their attack was. That was the sensible part of the post dealing with racing.

But all the sensible stuff aside, knowing that there was going to be a crash and you could have parked it and won the race ... yeah, now you get it

 

But if you saw the video I would also need to be careful about which bit of grass I would park on as quite a bit is part of his racing line.

 

I recommend the crazy stressed rF2 drivers to subscribe to iRacing for 3 months time in order to be taught a lesson or two in superficial sterile racing where any overtaking attempt is seen as a one-way ticket to Guantanamo.

 

lol the first thing I wanted to post here was if some guys want to experience proper racing. Take 3month free promo code for iRacing and see how brilliant online racing can be It's not sterile, it's just not filled with people who think motorsport is a contactsport.

Well apart from the rookieseries, they're just like on here

 

Probably safest to park up on the apex of any corner.