Driving standards question, regarding online crash.

I did some racing the other day in an ISR megane server, had some great racing with a bunch of very quick and fair guys. About the 6th race is the only time I had any incidents all caused by one guy with online name Smithaz. I dont care really if someone makes a mistake but at least say sorry, but he hit me 2 laps in a row and wrecked a few others races before me. He claims I pushed him off the road on the 2nd crash so I though Id post a video to see if the way I see driving standards is completely wrong or its just this guy seeing it wrong lol.

In the end its just a virtual race with virtual damage so no big deal, I think its only fair to say sorry and also you should always try and avoid contact but obviously accidents happen. This guy was faster but he also cheats by cutting so no real respect there regarding his pace lol. If your faster and get stuck behind someone a bit slower only because he caused accidents earlier, you need to pass others for position fairly they dont have blue flags so dont need to give way. If anyone is clearly faster then me and even for position if they have got into position forcing me to give way I will, this guy caught back up by cutting and then just tried to ram his way through the field.

Overall I really enjoyed the online experience on this server and my first day ever driving the meganes, not my favorite but was the only server with more then 10 people in it so I had a go anyway.

Video may take another hour or so to upload as it is taking its time for some strange reason. The thumbnail shows the point of impact where I apparently pushed him off the road lol. I am the car in the center left of the track he is outside.

This is at Imola on the straight with a fast right kink coming before the last chicane so he has nowhere to go on the outside so far behind anyway, my car is already being spun to the left as he just made contact.

 

We had this one guy on our server that crashed people by purpose. He said sorry afterwards but it was too late because he ruined the race for many of us. Hard to believe rf2 attracts trolls. Hope he was just having a bad day or something

About your video: Smithaz is responsible. I think you have a right to choose your normal line when you are ahead. Of course I would watch the guy behind me dispite of that to avoid collision.

Should there be a drive trough penalty or stop and go if you constantly cut the track?

 

I dont think this guy was crashing on purpose but just gave others no respect and hit anyone that was close to him, mostly due to giving no room and poor passing technique expecting others to give way to him whilst giving nobody else any space lol.

 

Smithaz wasn't driving very well, he was too aggressive and impatient. You need to be more situationally aware. You had an incident with him earlier and you knew he was behind you. You should have not taken the normal racing line and given him more space.

First incident where he dive bombed: his fault 100%. Second incident where he hit you and spun both: racing incident. In a league (if I was admin) I'd give you a verbal and tell you to never race a guy like that let that guy go off and end his own race. I'd penalize him by disqualifying him from the race results and he'd race with a warning in the future.

 

1st incident Smithaz have better traction then you and want to keed up the momentum, i would do the same as him, but take the inside line instead and probably crashing you out in the upcoming righthand turn.

2nd incident is cleary his fault, he should either brake much later (outbraking himself and you would see him along you) or much earlier.

 

While you make some fair points Mart, I have to say your write up is not entirely fair.
I admit myself that race was a shambles for me, I was pushing hard until I made that mistake which took a couple of people out (turning while braking), after that I carried on pushing hard with slight damage and I was too impatient and aggressive with slower drivers, I caused a couple of accidents and I was out of line. Sorry about that I was a bit worked up.
I take exception to the accusation that I cut the last corner in order to catch people up, I was evidently unpracticed on that corner, I braked too late, realised this and rolled over the grass. I do not cut corners to gain time.
Also regarding the disputed incident, I am still of the opinion that it was your fault. Far enough alongside or not, right of way or not, I was hugging the white line, you came across and spun yourself off.

 

I agree on this incident. If you watch the replay in slow motion, you can see smithaz car seperation to the white line remains constant whilst marty's seperation to the white line was shortening, meaning that marty was drifting left and the gap was actually being closed off. However, all this took place in a very short space of time and i don't think it's anything to right home about, just a simple racing incident and a some miscommunication between drivers. (This observation is not very apparent if you view the incident from only the fixed camera view of marty's car. Fixed camera views always give the impression that other cars around the camera view are doing most of the "moving about").

The last incident where he locks up, passes a driver but runs off and has to cut the corner...you can see smithaz actually slow down and move a little right to give back the position.

The other incidents, yes, smithaz fault for causing them but when you watch all the remaining incidents but the last one in the video they were all caused by lock ups, so i would argue it's poor judgement on smithaz part (perhaps a bad night? not that it excuses anyone for their poor judgement in a given situation) but i can't see it being in any way malicious.

That last incident with the blue car, he should have backed off not being more along side at the turning point per racing rules. However, personally if i was in that same situation, i would have done the same as it looked like the blue car was letting him pass by opening the inside completely whilst being so close and somewhere along side each other. Having said all that, the camera view was head on in the video which makes it hard to tell each cars longitudinal positions with much accuracy.

Just my two pennies worth.


But overall, i can understand why your a bit peeved off marty. I've driven with smithaz before and i've never seen him like this when i've raced him but he did look a tad over zealous in your particular race.

 

I'm sorry but the responsibility is on the tailing driver to make a careful pass. In this instance the driver takes the racing line, he is entitled to that racing line as he is the lead driver. Online Sim Racing is more difficult to gauge where someone is behind you or even next to you in some instances so more 'alertness' is required.

The onus is on the driver behind to make the safe pass.. IF the leader had changed his driving path ie off the racing line as an attempt to bloke the tailing driver, and this incident had occurred then yes the cause of the incident would be that of the leading driver but this wasn't the case here.

In real racing, the tailing driver (in this case Smithaz) would incur a drive thru..

I have been an official for real life races in the past and I carry the same rules (in most cases) for online races also.

 

I freely take responsibility for every incident that I was involved in during that race, I was making mistakes to begin with then kept going for it 100% after picking up damage.
But the martcerv straight line incident, it is more the responsibility of the leading driver not to turn into another car and cause a collision, in my view that is.

 

if your up along side the b pillar he should have know you where there and not turned in as you would have been far enough up not to be at fault, but if you are not that far up there you should have pulled out and made the pass later. have not watched vid. Radar is spot on with his call.

 

did anybody report this to his mom? I'm sure they gonna sort it out for us....
sorry mate, welcome to anarchy online racing..

 

Simthaz is good he is fasts and is not a wrecker.
First incident MM you took your line and did not adjust it inspite of him approaching on the outside wide, if I was you I would not be looking back on a corner approach no, you did it by the book. He should of backed off you closed the door on him safely not aggressively, I would of even been doing a slight scandinavian flick at that point if I was you. Should you adjust no he was behind should of backed off to save his own race but was forceful by notgiving in, he should of waited for a better opportunity or a mistake by the driver infront. In the first incident he did earn the title of fast farmer or tractor driver ploughing but again you should not of given him the opportunity to be geting alongside or else you'd have to start considering to give room altho I'd say you was not wrong again this was a 65/35 in your favour.
Second incident he had a lock up, its racing it happens he had more speed he tried to stop he couldn't and you actually left it too wide open for him not to try and then cut in tight that would of been a 50/50 in my book.
Honestly theres no reason to spend your time making videos and the way you did it outcasting another driver in public your looking for trouble and sound like a kid who had his sweets stolen. In future be more vigilent early cover every opportunity of the rear driver passing you, even if it slows your lap down over all and is alot more erratic driving. You should block and make your car as wide as possible not givving the rear driver any opportunity to get along side. If he is a foot alongside you and he is aggressive you will be faced with a decision that could be avoided should you of placed your car early, he is racing and you left a gap and a race driver will always go for a gap. Someone famous once said that.

 

well.... I kind of agree... but if you are not playing in a league... rf is crap to play online... I think rF2 deserves/must have a ranking system with penalties. (might be an optional paid service...) It would gather people together that want to compete in a fair way.

 

The issue is that a lot servers don't have clear racing rules thus the anarchy .

Following basic racing rules you must be up to the B pillar to challenge for a line into a corner, the challenging driver must yield if this is not the case.
Its up to the driver behind not to make contact unless your in a legitimate passing position (up to B pillar) Then both drivers become responsible for contact and racing room should be given and adhering to the inside or outside line depending on your position.

This may not be a true interpretation of all series types rules but by having them there becomes no argument and he said she said stuff .

 

I just watched first incident again and I do think you could of done more to cover the gap as to eliminate possibilty of a pass, altho you still wasnt wrong. The next corner was an easy right as in the sense not to much to think about coming up and driver infornt of you was to far to be a factor, hence you could of been looking in your mirror watching the trailing car and covering more. You cant blame him for trying here, you cant blame him for turniing in to keep control thats natural instinct but he should of given it up.

 

To give a bit of context, the corner on which the incident happened is more of a kink than a full on corner, there is plenty of room to stay left. I don't buy this 'it is the responsibility of the chasing driver to back off' business, If it was a really fast one by one corner then that rule applies but on the slower easier corners then you can force your opponent to take unusual lines. In other words, if by taking the usual racing line you will cause an accident, you do not take the usual racing line.

 

Sorry you miss my point. I'm not saying who is in the right or wrong or whether you agree with this interpretation of the rule.
Just that if they are there and that's the rule, the argument is finished.

Putting pressure on someone in front is one thing but being where you shouldn't at the wrong time is different.


Like I said i'm not saying right or wrong just that a rule helps to clear things up.

 

It is the resposibility of the chasing driver unless you have, in general, more than half your car alongside him. Something to that effect at least.
You had whats looks like your front wing next to his rear bumper. That is not enough to say that "Yep, this is my line now, the other driver needs to back off to avoid an accident".
He also didn't make any sudden movements to the outside, just following the racing line and slowly moving to the outside for the right hander. It would be bloody hard to tell from any mirrors that you have just your wing alongside him.

But bloody hell, was this for points and prize money? Did you guys have to pay for repairs?

 

My point is that I would have stayed further right so as to avoid incident. I am not actually aggrieved by this incident, I am just interested in peoples unusual opinions on this subject.
I think the B-pillar rule would apply if the chasing driver was on the inside of a fast corner such as 130r at suzuka or pouhon or blanchimont at spa, but if a chasing driver was on the outside of those corners front bumper to rear bumper then I think that would be ok.

 

I dont know what sort of sim setup you have but id love to know how you would see anyone in the position you were in if you were me, so I just took my regular line not expecting to get punted off in the straight as I had no idea you got your front bumper beside my rear bumper LMAO. After the initial contact you didnt even lift and just punted me off, I cant see how the lead driver would be at fault there but thats why I though Id post it here to get a general view from other as I may be wrong. I have been wrong before and will be again, if I make a mistake the least I could do is say sorry even if Im not fully at fault. Maybe I was meant to say sorry to you for punting me off the track?

This was the first time Ive ever really driven the meganes and so it was a first on each track, I did 5 races before and was impressed how clean and fast all the other guys were. This would have been over 2hrs 15 min of driving with no incidents between anyone in all races or qualy session which were both set at 15 min each. Then this race there were wrecks all over the place and once I saw the replay it was clear you were the cause of them all. Thats why it stood out so much with such a high level of driving then coming across someone that takes out half the field in 4 and 2 huge cuts in 6 laps lol.

The cutting and lack of track or car knowledge as well as locking up and hitting other I think has no excuse, as you managed to wreck a race for at least half the field all on your own lol. My main aim is to dry as fast as I can and avoid wrecking anyone elses day but going by that race replay you didnt respect any other drivers. If you do such a massive cut and gain position its a instant penalty in any form of racing regulations. The first time you punted me off you were going in so hot that you would have had to cut the chicane again for a 3rd time in 5 laps which is very poor. You didnt cut the next time as you were too slow after punting me off on the straight lol so maybe take it easy and just try your best to avoid contact. You look like a better driver then that but show others respect and you will get it back, drive like you did and all respect is lost.

Lol

The video is not public its unlisted with only a link in this thread where it can be discussed, I wanted to see a general opinion as I cant see how I was in the wrong there. I will add a famous quote by a wikileaks lawyer to the US gov "If you want to avoid being embarrassed you should stop doing embarrassing things"

Surely the driver behind needs to give room to the lead car not the other way around unless you get far enough alongside but here he barely got his bumper in line with my rear bumper. I saw he was behind and I actually expected to get punted off at the chicane again but got a surprise on the straight lol.

What your saying is that I should be blocking, Id rather just take my normal line and if someone is good enough and fast enough to get by safely they have plenty of room. If they dont then they either stay behind or make a stupid move and wreck, If I was out blocking then I would half expect to get punted off the track and would probably deserve it too. There is no point blocking all the way around during a race as thats also ruining someone elses race. If I go all defensive and block it sacrifices the exit and run to the next corner so better to take the normal line and those good enough will find a way through, someone with no brake control whatsoever that locks up and punts half the field off the track in one race is pretty stupid driving I think.

I think racing them fair and square giving the opportunity for them to make a move if they are good enough is better in most cases. Sure the last lap or first turn you can get more defensive but in an open server midfield I see little point in holding people up but I am also not going to move aside and let them through. If someone gets into position where you need to give space then do it if not I will hold my line and let them find a way around.

To add context the next corner is a fast left right chicane so even if you get beside but dont make contact you are in the wrong position for the exit of the chicane. There is nowhere to go around the outside there but it will give an opportunity to pass into the chicane if you get well alongside or infront before it.