Dallara DW12 Indy car v1.63 (newly updated) Now Available

Thx good to hear because this exactly what I've use ATM.

 

Each car has a 'maximum torque' value assigned to it (the one that will, in the next DW12 update according to this thread, be separated for the different configurations so the road course version has higher forces). This is set by the modder to indicate what the nominal maximum steering arm torque will be, so the game knows when to set 100% output force (and obviously scale all other forces as well).

By adjusting the STC setting, you can tell the game that your wheel can do, for example, 12Nm. It will then scale down forces from any car that is set to produce less than that; for example if you drive a car that says it has a maximum force of 6Nm, the game will send 50% force to your wheel when the simulated steering torque reaches 6Nm. Input = output.

For cars that can produce more than your wheel, it will be scaled as per normal. So yeah, you'd need a very powerful wheel (not one of the normal 'toys') to make this work with all cars. You can try setting a high value on a cheap wheel but it'll just kill the FFB because the game thinks it only needs to output a relatively low amount of FFB to replicate the simulated forces - giving you hardly anything at your wheel.

In relation to this discussion, if your wheel is quite powerful you can make the 'lighter' cars actually feel lighter because they'll be scaled down in accordance with their simulated forces. The forces your wheel is capable of would be felt 1:1.

 

And why you do not just simply use a higher amount if smoothing for the cars which feel to rough? I mean that is the purpose of this setting.

 

Because the point of enjoying a simulator is that some experts have already done all the proper tweaking and set-up because they are the experts and have access to real data. The enjoyment of using a simulator is to not have to reset every basic setting every time you switch from one car to another. If I jump from an NSX into a V12 F1 Ferrari, I expect the engine to be louder. The enormously loud engine on an F1 car is part of the simulation. So is the steering feel that varies from one type of car to another. If I wanted every car to feel the same, I would console racing games.

 

Might I suggest, given how most people in here seem to think that it's fun to adjust basic settings for every car (which I hate), that you don't exaggerate the effect of caster to save people from a heavier than average feeling wheel (that would be accurate to the real car). Those people who prefer an artificially light wheel can simple reduce their multiplier.

And is it just a matter of multipliers? Increasing the multiplier doesn't increase the chances of clipping? I think it's more likely a situation that you have to sacrifice a bit of fidelity somewhere, so the ranges themselves have to be altered. Large ovals need fidelity at super high speeds because that's what you're doing 95% of the time. If the fidelity in the pity lane is "squashed" a bit to get the fidelity at higher speed, I'd be OK with that, especially because an asymmetrical set-up is probably being used that makes the car feel wonky on flat ground anyway. For road courses, where you hit top speeds for only a few seconds per lap, I'd be happy to risk a bit of clipping over bumps for those seconds to have full fidelity FFB in the rest of the range that I am using 95% of the time. Does this make sense?

Default set-ups could also vary the caster, but as I mentioned, using the caster as a kludge to deal with the main problem is not a good idea at the end of the day.

And please, don't wait another year to address this. I am sure a few of us would be happy to help test something and a small update could be released in the coming weeks. It would help pin-down how to handle this issue for the CPM updates of all the other modern open-wheelers.

 

I also wanted to confirm two things:

1) Maxing-out caster to 9.9, and not changing any other settings from my usual (and multiplier left at 1.0) that feels fantastic with 90% of the cars, results in EXACTLY the high-fidelity and properly weighted FFB I would have expected to be there at default. No complaints whatsoever. Delighted. Just curious that it requires this set-up to get there and I think confirms that the caster is kludged right now to compensate for something else. So the question is whether running maximum caster has any deleterious effects on the rest of the set-up; tire wear; speed; etc.?

2) The "Steering torque capability" variable is essentially useless unless you have a very powerful (non-toy) wheel. So for a Fanatec CSW (and 95% of the othjer wheels out there), setting it at 2.5, or 8, or 1 for that matter, will effectively do nothing. It can't be set too high or too low for these consumer wheels. ISI, please confirm.

 

Don`t know if its car or build fault, but I run practice session on "Alternate" tires, but in saved hotlap replay I see my car have rain tires.

Upd. Tires changed to "Aleternate" textures half lap through the replay.

 

Please check if your "replay fidelity" is set to the highest possible setting

 

Fidelity is on "Full".

 

If you properly scaled the different car sounds, and wanted to include the loudest possible without horrible clipping (and I don't think any F1 car will actually be the loudest, if you're allowing for different racing types), you'll basically hear nothing with the quieter cars unless your speakers can basically blow your roof off. Most people (ok, probably all) can't play the loud sounds at their proper volume, so they wouldn't hear the quieter sounds at their proper volume.

So if they did this, you'd find yourself adjusting your volume between cars. Is that a better option than the game just making the quiet cars louder?

Maybe in future ISI can have a setting, 'Sound Output Capability' where you set the dB your speakers are capable of and it scales sounds accordingly...

I might be corrected, but I think the 'multipliers' referred to are the NominalMaxSteeringTorque settings I mentioned earlier. And the solution you're describing is exactly what they'll do.

Right now the DW12 has a single NominalMaxSteeringTorque value. As has been mentioned they set this based on a test at 300kph, which would obviously involve quite high forces. All forces felt in this car are therefore scaled down from 100% based on how the current force relates to that maximum. On a high speed oval this works exactly as you're asking for; you have strength and fidelity at high speed which is what you're doing most of the time, while in the pits the low forces won't do much (and will pretty much disappear on cheaper wheels) but that's not a big problem because you're hardly there.

When they adjust the NominalMaxSteeringTorque for the different vehicle configurations, the road course version will produce maximum FFB at forces that represent a 'normal' level at a road course. This will lead to some clipping in extreme situations (or if you take the road course car onto a high speed oval where it doesn't belong) but most of the time it'll help with strength and fidelity.

So I think the solution they've mentioned is going to do what you want. But... caster is still another matter. Caster does increase the general force, as it should, so if the default setting produces quite a bit less force due to the mechanical trail - as ISI has here described - then if they're to allow for the maximum caster setting in the nominalmaxtorque setting, the default caster will be weaker. Then you need to work out whether you want to adjust the FFB multiplier to compensate.

And they've said the next update. Would hope that's not a year away.

It doesn't 'do nothing', it just won't allow you to feel the forces 1:1 when your wheel isn't capable of doing it. Makes sense really.

Here's the Build 904 release note on this feature:

If you want to feel all forces in their correct proportion, set this value above the max torque of all the vehicles you drive. Something around 25-30 would probably do it. If you want those forces to be as high as reality, get a wheel that can output that much force.

If you don't have such a wheel, you either use this setting and end up with dead FFB in a lot of cars, or you boost up the FFB in the 'weaker' cars so you can feel it - much like you boost up the sound so you can hear quieter cars with your non-roof-lifting speakers. That's what the game does for you, that's why 90% of the cars feel great for you, and when they adjust the DW12 for the different configurations that will feel better for you too - but open wheelers with aero effects have a higher range of forces in proper driving situations (hairpins vs high speed corners) so without adjusting the linearity of the response you'll never get good strength everywhere.

Fidelity has little or no effect on this. The tyre compound info is only sent now and then, which means sometimes it takes a while for the replay to show the correct compound. Same as if you click to a point past a pitstop you'll still see the previous tyre compound used, sometimes for up to ~30 secs (depending basically on random timing), but if you actually view the pitstop itself the compound will change immediately. I haven't checked whether this could actually mean an entire hotlap replay on a short track/oval would show the wrong compound, but for most non-oval tracks it will update at some point. And obviously if your hotlaps ends on Alternate tyres, it must have started on them despite appearances

So this isn't car-specific.

 

Wow, these are great. This and the Cobra blow my mind a bit. Best 2 sim cars I've tried.

Incidentally, I've got a G27 on 107% in profiler, 1.60 multi 5 smoothing with Caster on 8.0. Great FFB here, but has felt 'wrong' and 'bad' before I found a comfortable, believable setting. This was the Road version.

 

Don't expect sounds to be scaled 100% perfectly, just that the loudest car in reality should be the loudest in the sim and vice versa.

Don't expect to have FFB that matches reality 100% perfectly, but the racing car with the heaviest steering in the entire world of current racing should feel heavier than the road car with power steering in the sim.

It isn't a choice between 100% accuracy or 100% consistency. An attempt at accuracy, within reason, is the core purpose of a sim and is really the only thing that separates it from a game.

Do you have a recommended value for a 5 Nm-strength wheel? Is it simple--5? If so, what should one feel if you set it to 1 instead? Or 10?

The last update of the DW-12 took a year (not counting the mini-update to correct the glitch with the lack of tire sounds). ISI has not patched their cars for small updates ever to my knowledge, even though every one of them has needed something relatively quick and simple. So I wouldn't hold my breath for a quick update.

 

I'm so happy to read this!
I've always found that some cars are "less fun" to drive because of the weak ffb.
(Yes, I'm aware of the steering torque minimum setting)

 

rF2 FFB doesn't simulate power steering, at least as of yet.

Regarding caster, caster angle does have an effect, quite notable, in that it adds tires camber while cornering. Usually it helps me find pace to run high casters, it gives a nice entry bite and eliminates understeer. I'm also of opinion that the effect of caster angle on FFB, compare e.g. caster 4.0 and 9.0 on FISI, feels quite extreme, or compare F2 that has almost 0 FFB in low speeds due to some enforced low caster, but maybe it's how it's supposed to be. At least it's supposed to increase resistance because tires have more self-aligining torque with higher values.

 

yeah just tried the F2 again, it has the same FFB falloff i described w/ the dw12 after so much turn in & sadly you cant adjust caster for this car. i am indeed using a whopping 2.5x multiplier, could scale that down a bit, but felt pretty comfortable even driving it at suzuka (where im sure it was clipping quite badly in many places). also started w/ a green track & well, i think this car will really benefit/made me appreciate the new CPM. hope it doesnt get lost in the shuffle as i like the car quite a bit & w/ updates, even better.

 

Any update released?

Can we have a 1.168?

 

+1

I noticed while on a dry track that a number of the AI had rain tires on (or at least the appearance of such). Not sure if they were toggling on and off.

 

Any Chance of the EXTRA8 & EXTRA9 templates?

 

Like to request this.

The problem actually is, without any audio feedback, in case the chassy, undertray or splitter touching tarmac. And now in addition, we lost the abillity to check rideheight throu Motec.
So there's no way to set rideheight and rake angle properly, something wich is crucial for those cars with ground effect. A bit of a pity, because the ground effect simulation in rF2 seems to work very well.

There is also no, or almost no friction when you set the chassy much to low on purpose. Don't know is there's any sort of diffusor stall, when rideheight gets to low.

 

There should be, rF2 has had this I think from the start and a number of ISI cars have used it. Undertray friction is generally lower than in rF1 and for the end of straights can sometimes seem a bit low... but I can assure you higher values can make a mess when you climb high kerbs