compendium of needed improvements

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by amishracing, Oct 3, 2020.

  1. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    I've compiled a list of some of the most asked for fundamental improvements people want to see in rf2 in an attempt to draw attention to the current state of rf2 game features and how they can be improved and added upon in a somewhat comprehensive manner available to the community.

    Please feel free to elaborate on the list and present reasonable arguments for edits, additions or removal of items. Only fundamental features existing in other sims are welcomed. AI issues are excluded to focus on what is currently lacking with the base game. Improvements to the weather system are welcomed if they fit the aforementioned criterias. Note that most car specific issues fall under A1A1 (consistent and properly functioning car feature advancements for all s397 and isi content). Corrections and pertinent notes on list items are welcomed.

    compendium of needed improvements (version 1.46)

    Gameplay
    General
    1: Designated inventory of updated content of consistent quality
    Issues: lack of quality consistency in car physics, graphics, etc; inconsistently accurate setup options (TC, ABS, etc)
    Noted post: https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/rf2-cars-tyre-model-list-heirachy.62381/
    Cars
    1: Advanced drivetrain physics
    Issues: lack of missed shifts, downshift protection, wear (elasticity), damage and failure
    Noted plugin: https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/realistic-gearshift-version-2.62996/
    Noted post: https://forum.studio-397.com/index....needed-improvements.67381/page-2#post-1041804
    2: Advanced tire physics
    Issue: tire temp, wear and failure unaffected by track temp, pressure, flatspotting and rain​
    3: Analog handbrake
    4: Traction light
    5: Advanced mechanical and visual damage.
    Issues: lack of damage model advancement; lack of suspension damage from kerbs (or inconsistent suspension damage from kerbs on different vehicles?)​
    UI
    General
    1: Consistent car information and naming format, and designation of updated and obsolete content
    Issues: lack of consistent car information and naming format; official content undesignated; updated and obsolete content undesignated; two content workshops (is it possible to merge?)​
    Multiplayer
    1: Multiplayer lobby server car pack information
    Issue: lack of multiplayer lobby server server car pack information​
    Multiplayer
    Server settings
    1: More track boundary cut incident penalty options
    Issues: lack of time penalties for cuts with no lap time gain, time penalties for cuts with lap time gain based on lap time gained on cut, flat time penalties, etc​
    2: More collision incident penalty options, irregardless of point of contact
    Issue: collision penalties are limited, inconsistent and dependent on point of contact​
    Server administration
    1: Collision and boundary cut incident monitoring
    Issue: lack of admin incident monitoring​
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    YasT, Xzanman, Jason PLAdoh and 7 others like this.
  2. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2020
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    59
    Right now we have advanced technology in windscreen that use an anti-reflection and dirt coating. While pratical... it look weird.
    Plus for endurance immersion... we could use some dirt build up over time.
    Well done the windscreen reflection can had a lot of depth in the overall scene also.

    Don't know why I thought about this example in particular... maybe I saw too much iracing streamer recently...
    I don't think that something people are specially asking about tough... they are probably happy to have perfect visibility.
     
  3. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    Can you elaborate on your improvement idea or ideas? It appears there maybe 2 points in relation to gameplay graphics you're trying to make. 1: windscreen reflection graphics 2: dirt coating buildup grahpics.
    Also, in regards to these graphical improvements it can be argued that the dirt coating buildup graphics feature is not inherently fundamental to sim racing and is a rather advanced feature but as you've pointed it out with other sims like iracing also including this feature, it is becoming more standard.
    The windscreen reflection graphic improvement you're suggesting seems related to reflection graphics which are a pretty standard feature in most sims but I think you need to elaborate on what fundamental improvement you'd like to see in regards to them
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  4. Xzanman

    Xzanman Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    20
    Nice list.would be nice to know what, if any of these things are being worked on or planned to be worked on by Studio 397.I like the roadmap updates and love new content.but i think the roadmap should include what plans Studio 397 have other than new content..
    I would like to see an improved weather system, perhaps with realtime weather.
    Also the reflection of headlights on other cars needs fixing,cars at night have a very unrealistic look when viewed from the cockpit.
     
  5. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    It is a good question whether S397 has plans for a comprehensive update addressing all or any of these things but I image the more attention brought to these issues the more likelier they may get fixed although it is also understandable if that takes time.
    In regards to realtime weather, though this would be a cool feature, I would personally not describe it as fundamental to sim racing at this time, however other people may feel different and I would welcome others opinions on this. Curious as to whether anyone has also seen this feature implemented natively in other sims? there is also this plugin https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/weatherplugin.58614/ which I have not messed with. If it's good it may be appropriate by s397 to implement it natively in rf2. Same deal with the realistic gearshift plugin in my opinion, https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/realistic-gearshift-version-2.62996/ which I have also not messed with.
    In regards to the headlight reflection issue can you post a screenshot by any chance? Is this a known issue? It does sound like a pretty fundamental improvement depending on the severity
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  6. Xzanman

    Xzanman Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    20
    I think automobilista 2 has a realtime weather option.
    As for the night time reflections,just start a race at night,or watch any onboard video on YouTube .the cars have a very matt look to them.They look ok on replays,I thought the new shaders would fix it,but sadly not.
    I will post screenshots ASAP.
     
  7. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2020
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    59
    hey amish.

    About the 'anti-reflection and dirt coating', I was making (a bad) joke... to point out the lack of reflection and dirt build up. that's all, no need to elabore more... it's just lacking right now, it's pretty much like having no windscreen at all.

    And I think you could add a 'bug fix' section...and include stuff like:
    - the corvette gt3 tire position which is too wide and go through the mesh of the car we the suspension is at load.
    - the amg gt3 ffb which is odd compare to other gt3 car and probably need investigation (there is a ll thread about it)
    - etc...
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  8. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    I think it's widely agreed upon that that graphics aren't rF2's forte so a night time graphics issue like you speak of should be a fairly 'glaring' one (pun) to make it to a list of fundamental improvements. I havent found any other references or videos demonstrating this issue. If it isnt a graphics setting issue or that serious of an issue it may be a basic graphics quality issue which might be prudent to be included in a more general graphics improvement list item which rf2 could use.
     
  9. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    Got ya lol.
    I think both of your improvements can be included as factors in a more general graphics improvement list item which is obviously popular and should be included.
    Regarding your bug fix suggestion I've heard of the merc gt3 ffb issue but not the corvette issue however I believe both of these issues fall under A1A1 (consistent and properly functioning car feature advancements for all s397 and isi content)
     
  10. Lukas Lichten

    Lukas Lichten Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    201
    The entirety of the new UI basically.

    I have started writting notes to make a script, 7 pages of notes of a bunch of stuff that is horribly designed, and also some bugs.
    I have also some footage to edit this in the end into a video, but the devs from time to time push out an update to fix one tiny item on this massive list, which invalidates my footage in part, and I procrastinate too much

    And using it inbetween the league races while doing practice, and there are some nice features (like two, really) that I miss, but man, there is so much crap that wants me to stay on the old as long as possible, and I know I not in the minority here.
    Also you find even more issues that I need to add to the list that you don't catch from just looking at it
     
    Kahel likes this.
  11. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    I get what you're saying to some degree (after re-reading your post a few times lol).
    The number one issue I have with the new UI is that is does nothing to address the lack of multiplayer lobby server car pack information and therefore in rF2 you can't even tell what car packs you need to join a server. This is seemingly inconceivable, primarily because people want to know what car packs they need to join a server so they can purchase those car packs, and this I would say is extremely fundamental, that's why its on the list. If you have other specific examples of improvements to the UI which can unarguably be deemed fundamental to sim racing which exist in other sims please list them.
    I do see other improvements with the new UI however such as administration options and the like.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  12. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2020
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    59
    Some fix needed from a newcomer (a friend who do Multiplayer only) perspective:
    - FFB disappearing after a change of session (reset FFB can help but new player get understanbly annoyed because they don't know)
    - No feel during braking (gt3) even when locking up... but overall lack of feel during braking.
    - 'Yellow substitute car' in MP (you can press the reload car key... but again it shocking for a new player to see weird yellow mesh instead of the opponent... with no obvious way to know you can reload the car..it took me one year to find out the option and I bet some never did...)
    - With the new UI, when in multiplayer, it take 5 long second when you press esc. to return to the garage, and without any feedback... it almost feels like the game will crash...
    - Safety car, absolutely outdated, described as a 'joke'... which explain why the made a new for the virtual 24h Lemans... what about us...
    - Rearview mirror with very low distance drawing (can be modified in the config file .json but the big majority don't know or bother doing it... which is a shame since you can tripple the view distance without performance hit, even with a 6 years old system maybe more)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
    Ricardo Diz likes this.
  13. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    I've not had the ffb disappering issue myself with my hardware so this may be hardware specific or some configurable setting. This is vaguely mentioned in race departments rf2 manual ( https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rfactor-2-game-guide-and-f-a-q.119019/ "B - FFB Reset handy when entering grid before green flag and no FFB - bind it now!").
    Regarding the yellow substitute car, should also be mentioned in the manual on how to reload cars. I didnt even know about this one and exited to monitor to reload the cars. Heres a post on the issue https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/added-skins-wont-load-up-unless-reloaded.41251/
    The "no feel during braking issue" for gt3s is a content quality consistency issue (A1A1 on the list)
    The new UI issues are obviously still being worked on as it's still in beta.
    A different safety car isn't necessarily fundamental unless there's some kind of serious funamental issue with using the current one that I'm missing
    The rearview mirror issue you speak of needs more articulation.
    I think these are worthwhile notes to be mentioned however not exclusively fundamental to sim racing provided you're throuroughly informed on the product and all the keys and such
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  14. Comante

    Comante Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    712
    The most urgent feature is just the competition system, this is what is keeping people offline or playing other titles. Then you can focus on whatever you like.
     
  15. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2020
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    59
    I would agree with that very much... but since it's already in the top, maybe the top priority of the devs... so don't feel the need add it to this kind of list/discussion.
     
  16. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    How are you going to have a functioning competition system when all the content isn't up to snuff? You're going to compete cars of wildly varying quality and technical features? Is it only going to run races with all the newest paid DLC content and completely ignore all the base s397 and isi content? And let's say like you incinuate that people are satisfied with the janky clutch physics and the tyre model lacking basic features like effects on tyres from track temperature, Still no analog handbrake, the games damage model is still comparable to something like nascar racing 2003 season. Something as basic as track boundaries aren't even properly implemented with people going off road with no consequence on some tracks. You've got not only inconsistent contet, but the whole UI, car naming and description format is inconsistent as well. You cant even tell what car packs you need to joing a server nor which content is officially s397 and isi and which is 3rd party. track cut penalties and collision incidient penalty options are extremely limited and completely unconductive to quick racing which is what the competition system will likely features. So you have drive throughs for track cuts in a 5 lap race and no other optins.
    The competition system isn't going to amount to much if these fundamental issues aren't rectified.
    P.S. If they can't address everything, at the very least for the competition system to work in my opinion rf2 needs to have #1 some kind of content quality consistency (demarcating obsolete content), #2 accurate track boundaries, #3 more track cut options for quick races (like flat time penalties, time penalties based on severity of cut, slowdowns, etc), #4 incident monitoring, review and penalties and last but not least #5 multiplayer lobby server car pack info (so people know what the hell they need to buy or download to join a server). All these improvements are listed in the compendium
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  17. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Messages:
    574
    Likes Received:
    234
    Its taken 4 years to develop a very very poor ui and its not finished yet. Probably never Will be. How ppl Can even start to get their hopes up for things like these is beyond me. If the team was capable of adding things like traction lights they would surely have done so years ago... before releasing 14 GT3 cars that are now missing this feature.
     
    qusimano, Juergen-BY and marvelharvey like this.
  18. amishracing

    amishracing Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2020
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    14
    The new UI is rather complicated, flashy and counterintuitive (Click Start to find the Quit button?) but overall it's not detrimental, the core gameplay issues and features and the lack of advancements in these areas as you mention are the real problems. The one seriously detrimental issue I see with the UI is no multiplayer lobby car pack info. It doesn't make any sense not to have this information included in the multiplayer lobby servers info. People need to know what content to get to join a server.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
    Juergen-BY likes this.
  19. Kahel

    Kahel Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2020
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    59
    I quiet agree with you Mibrandt... don't know if it's the overall feeling here, but I don't have a lot of hope for this kind of things... it's more about dreaming, talking... and get some frustation out... :D

    Bottom line... don't have any hope beside... what they have been doing so far... which is making the most with the less effort... some would call it a balanced approch... they are here to produce stuff after all... but meh... I call it half baked stuff (on some aspect)... after all it's a sim not Gran Turismo... even project car have a higher standard.

    Having said that, now they have a bunch of programmers whom been doing most of the ground work for API, lightening, materials and UI... for the past few years... and can now focus a bit more on other stuff... then again, not having too much hope, but at the very least... that's that.
     
    Juergen-BY likes this.
  20. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    485
    Sry, too much text to read so sry i didn't read all comments. My answere is the same as for another thread:
    I understand S397s strategy to improve those areas where rF2 always was behind competition: graphics (incl. VR), licensed content (incl. full grids and laser scanned tracks), UI (more easy to operate for users) and last but not least building up online competition.

    Regarding new UI and status. I think it is obious that S397 was rebuilding the old UI with new technology. Later (when new UI is stable) S397 will improve the new UI for better usability ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
    pkelly and Rui Santos like this.

Share This Page