RF2 cars tyre model LIST heirachy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Hi I want to create something (like RR version available see attached) that has all the cars listed for rf2 and has an easy look up guide for how old the tyre model its running. Some people may see this as pointless but its a good reference to get the most out of rf2 cars and know where the car is at in terms of rf2 tech.

    I tried to keep this as consistent and structured as possible, this only include cars found in S397 workshop, if anyone wants to add mods, please feel free. but please be aware its actually quite hard to find this info for the older stuff.

    Please any corrections feel free to let me know?

    Adjusted = adjusted tyres by s397
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Aston Vantage GTE = NEW CPM QSA model (+new material system)
    McLaren Senna GTR = NEW CPM QSA model (+new material system)
    Tatuus car group = NEW CPM QSA model (+new material system)
    GT3 Challengers DLC = NEW CPM QSA model (+new material system)
    GT3 DLC = NEW CPM QSA model (+new material system)
    Endurance DLC = NEW CPM QSA model (+new material system)
    Formula E = NEW CPM QSA model
    McLaren MP4/13 = NEW CPM QSA model
    McLaren MP4/8 = NEW CPM QSA model
    McLaren M23 = NEW CPM QSA model
    March 761 = NEW CPM QSA model
    Brabham BT44B = NEW CPM QSA model
    Radical SR3-RSX = NEW CPM QSA model (maybe slightly older than the rest)

    Formula2 2012 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    Nissan GT500 2013 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    USF2000 2016 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    Renault Megane Trophy 2013 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    DallaraDW12 2014 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    KARTCUP = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    Corvette C6RGT2 2009 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    Nissan GT-R GT1 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    Chevrolet Camaro GT3 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    Renault Clio 197 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    FormulaRenault35 2014 = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)
    Corvette C6 (Coupe, GS, Z06, ZR1) = OLD CPM (pre october 2017)

    Honda Civic BTCC 2013 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    Formula ISI 2012 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    Marussia MR01 2012 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    Spark Historics 1968 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    EVE Historics 1968 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    StockCar 2015 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    Brabham BT20 1966 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    AC 427SC 1967 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)
    Howston Dissenter 1974 = OLD ISI MODEL (Adjusted)

    Nissan 370Z 2012 = OLD ISI MODEL
    Panoz AIV Roadster 1999 = OLD ISI MODEL
    Howston G6 1968 = OLD ISI MODEL
    Howston G4 1968 = OLD ISI MODEL
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  2. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Thanks for the list, will you be updating it ? Image is very small, by the way.

    I don't know how about others, but my favorite handling cars are from various models, from newest to oldest.

    For example Howston Disenter, Renault Megane are superb to me.

    I really like newest models too, but there are some doubtful parts about them in my mind, for example wet tires handling of MP4/13, MP4/8, M23 I would describe it has super sharp edge. Other new cars are interesting how they feel planted within very first percents of wear and only becomes lively after a bit of wear, I mean shouldn't tire grip increase within few first percents of wear, reach optimum for a while, and then start giving up ?
     
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  3. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Thanks took a while to populate and lot of research. I can't 100% confirm this is correct but think pretty close to accurate.

    When I get time I will make a fancier table colour coded
     
  4. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    I think some of those with old tires make up the feel because of awesome and close FFB so you can handle the cars really well. Like on a bunch GT3 cars i have a pretty large FFB deadzone but new tire model makes it decent to drive anyway while some older cars have old tire model but super tight FFB so it balances things. Granted im no expert so im not even sure i can feel the difference as such. I just know i love many of the oldies because of the FFB being so detailed and tight.
     
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  5. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    BTW I will be updating this.

    Also you may find it Interesting to read the road map from October 2017, Micheal states some issues with the older tyre model.
     
  6. Roenie

    Roenie Registered

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    Great list, thanks for sharing it. This does raise a big question:
    What are the differences between these 5 tyre models you mention,
    in practical terms when you're (league) racing, managing tyre wear, temps and car setup?

    Without that information, this information is only half the puzzle.

    Reading the October 2017 roadmap, in practical terms of what you need to take into account when getting ready for a race, the only thing that changed at that point was: In general, tyre temperatures will probably be slightly higher. So that's one difference between OLD CPM and NEW CPM.

    What about the differences between the other models?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  7. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    I agree and that is the puzzle. There's not much Info around regarding this and attaining this Info is pretty much impossible unless you dig Into the tyre files. Which I'm no expert... new cpm does have the new qsa model to it. Where the old cpm was isi version of it.

    Dont forgot this is a somewhat simplified look at the tyre model .. . I'm sure even the last few releases have adjustments made to each tyre model making them different
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  8. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    I have never liked the GT 500 Nissan's tire. The grip feels backwards, I get slip leading to grip instead of grip that evaporates to slip. And your list provides some clues as to why. BUT.....I have always like the feel of the US 2000 mod and those cars use the same generation tire files. hmmmm
     
  9. stonec

    stonec Member

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    The term CPM is a bit confusing, because it was originally referred to as a new model that ISI brought to their cars around 2015. You can read more about this CPM here (original article was removed, so only wayback machine works). S397 two years later made another change, but it was more like a fix or refinement, which improved the precision of calculations in the existing CPM (explained in this article).

    Bottom line is that it's impossible to fully understand the magnitude of change unless you can drive the exact same reference car without and with the latest model. Over the past few years quite many other things have changed as well, so the difference between a car from say, 2015, and the GT3 pack 2019 cars is not only due to CPM.
     
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  10. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    Isn't Honda Civic BTCC also on new CPM model?
     
  11. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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  12. tpw

    tpw Registered

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    Great list! Out of interest, where does the Skip Barber fit into the scheme of things?
     
  13. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Not on the list because not.in s397 workshop but I imagine it's the oldest tyre model.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  14. avenger82

    avenger82 Registered

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    From the following Steam workshop entry: it looks like Honda Civic has QSA fix:
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=950759997&searchtext=radical


    upload_2019-2-14_11-9-57.png

    , but it seems odd and changelog doesn't suggest so
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  15. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    @Michael Borda

    Could you Confirm please if the honda did get the qsa fix with cpm tyres?

    Thanks
     
  16. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Like i said, i think those older cars have tighter FFB. Am i the only one? There are a bunch of cars there that have older tires but the FFB is tighter. More FFB around center so you feel what the car does even at Little turning. With the newer cars and new tires i have to turn the Wheel much more Before i start feeling anything in the Wheel. Not saying the new ones are bad, just that perhaps non-DD Wheels lose more initial FFB feel, and for some reason the little (and more) older cars have tighter FFB.
     
  17. Jego

    Jego Registered

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    Same here, I put my minimum torque settings slightly higher since then. Otherwise the center forces are barely noticeable with my t300. I run it at 2.5, used to have it at 1.
     
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  18. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    I found out from an old post (sorry to hijack a bit) that non-DD wheels need min torque to Catch those initial FFB forces. Of course you are right that many older cars dont need much of it because they are so tight anyway, but for many cars with our non-DD wheels we should up the min torque until it start oscillating and then scale back a Little bit just so it stops shaking. Thats where non-DD wheels Catch the most of the initial FFB forces. Non-DD wheels however on many of the newer content lack a bit of FFB tightness around center even with min torque being added. Not sure why since rF2 isnt using fake FFB values to give us FFB. It should come from the car, setup and the phsyics engine in a pure way. Its a reason at least why i love the older content because of the FFB tightness. Still really like the GT3 cars, but they are much weaker center Wheel FFB, and to get the best out of them im sure we need DD wheels (expensive wheels, lol). :)

    But to stay on topic this is why i think some older content still feels good even though the tires arent updated to latest tire model. When you can feel what the car is doing and have good detail all over the Wheel FFB wise then older tires doesnt matter so much when it comes to the joy of driving. If we had new tire model AND tight FFB it would be heaven, but again - DD wheel! :D
     
  19. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    You see for me if feels like Isi old tyre model feels like the new Mercedes gt3 on my t300 Feels broke unless adding crap load of caster.

    New cars feel more lifelike on actual rubber tires and not made of wood

    As dave said above about the gt500 just feels wrong. I totally agree
     
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  20. Damian Baldi

    Damian Baldi Registered

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    To try to make a time line of rf2 tyres is like try to make the same with the human race, there is no line, it's like a tree.

    There were so so many changes on the tyres that's difficult to make a list. Since CPM tires were introduced there has been several changes. You have the early ones, then the ones at the DW12, later some variables were added, the important CAP changed all again and finally the lattest QSA and more variables.

    Since build 1110 ttool gives a different lookup table result than in previous versions if you run a complete test. That's because a correction made to sort an old mis calculation.

    About FFB in relation with the tyres, you have to see the contact surface. The old non CPM had a big and square surface, it gave a strong force all the time, but there were few sensations. Then with the first CPM tyres the contact patch become a lot more narrow, more sensations but less force, so the force was increased through the HDV. Later the pressure on the patch increased with CAP and with the change since build 1110 making the tyre carcas more stiff.

    Latest tyres have a lot more base grip, more stiffness but they have micro loss of grip to bring more feedback.

    You can't put a newest tyre on a car developed for an old versiĆ³n of tyre, you have to change many things on the rest of the car or the result will be crap.

    This is the story of rf2, an endless bunch of changes, poorly and outdated documentation, tyre examples unfinished etc etc that make it really frustrating to work with.
     

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