Released Caterham Academy

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    My mind too...
    Stopped driving after 10 min..
     
  2. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    It’s hard to report on that when you can’t feel the FFB effectively.

    The real vehicle is ‘almost telepathic’ - if you generate any slip/oversteer at the rear, you usually find that you’ve corrected it (or started to correct it at least) without conscious effort due to the feedback through the steering (which is a quick rack anyway and needs very little input).

    Braking, ditto - you get so much feedback through the steering in real life - and I’m not (just) talking about locking a wheel - weight transfer through braking and cornering is ‘just there’. I doubt there’s any vehicle in production that is more communicative other than perhaps lightweight non-assisted single seaters.
     
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  3. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Will do. Caster changes IRL involve moving the top wishbones back and forth with different sets of packing washers - it’ll be a lot easier in the sim!
     
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  4. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    I use a SC2 Pro too and I found that using my profile for light low/zero downforce cars gave me much better feel in the Caterham. My general profile uses damping, friction and inertia values in the high teens to twenties. Lightweight non-assisted single seater profile uses values of 5, 5, and 8% for a more direct feel. Values that low need careful balancing with the actual weight of the rim you are using to avoid oscillations but I find it transforms the lighter cars in rF2.
     
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  5. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Thanks - I'll try that too.

    Back to Caster - by (massively) increasing it above standard (I'm currently playing in the 6.0degree range), I'm *starting to get the kind of weight and feel I'm expecting. I'll keep testing.

    BTW, I'm testing at the 3rd party Cadwell circuit as the camber and altitude changes are quite significant and put the car through a good range of forces - it's a classic 7 track too...
     
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  6. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    Do we want every car to feel like every other one? Maybe we're too used to driving GT3s, GTEs and prototypes and when we get something radically different it might feel way off.

    It's a very light car with small tire contact patches and no aero force. I would only trust someone who has driven this car IRL. Other sims don't count in.

    I couldn't try the car yet but I'd be happy if it doesn't drive like another GT3 and is realistic instead.
     
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  7. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Not at all but, the ffb is so light out of the box, I thought it was completely broken on my initial test drive.

    The handling is much different than most other cars. Rotation can be controlled with minimal application of throttle / light trail braking, making it very dynamic and satisfying through the eSSes. :)
     
  8. Manfredk2

    Manfredk2 Registered

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    I set the FFB on my Simucube 1 to 150% for the Caterham (running GT3 for example at 65%, Simucube is set to 70%) and it is still far to weak.
     
  9. Maarten Nauta

    Maarten Nauta Registered

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    Dont bother wasting time "testing", its obvious its broken and they need to fix it.

    You would expect a S397 response here in this thread if they pull it from workshop in the vein of "yeah QC issues have bit more patience" then people wouldnt bother testing.
     
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  10. RaceNut

    RaceNut Registered

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    Yeah, I'm seeing SimuCube users reporting the weak ffb with the Academy. It's clearly an outlier in terms of the lack of ffb strength but, may not be affecting other wheels to the same degree? It makes no sense for it to be about half the force strength of the Mini, imo.

    Other things you can do:
    • Increase per-car ffb output significantly (300%+ / Doesn't seem to cause clipping, from my testing).
    (((OR)))
    • Increase caster to about 6 degrees (May result in some harsher bump effects, especially if used with reduced Friction / Damping).
     
  11. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    It's correct.
    Pure waste of time.
     
  12. Manfredk2

    Manfredk2 Registered

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    good suggestions but 300% will probably break my arms when going over curbs or when hitting other cars ;)
     
  13. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    Well that’s not a particularly helpful approach - I agree that the invisible front wheels are a face-plant ‘just fix it’ issue (probably the same with the gearbox/clutch when using paddles - and the inexplicable block-shift (e.g. 4th to 2nd) with h-pattern, but the handling is a different matter…

    Increasing caster to around 6.0 degrees certainly helps the general weight and feel of the steering and brings it *closer* to my IRL experience - but it’s still not as I’d expect and it’s treating the symptom rather than the cause.
     
  14. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Yes, maybe that was a bit harsh.
    But I don't touch the car anymore until it's fixed.
    The whole thing is completely unnecessary.
    If MSG or S397 had simply postponed this car, which is probably the highlight of Q3, from the release date. That would have been no shame
    But that?
    Well, that's it, I'm used to it after almost 4 years..
    Or rather, hardened.
    Hope the fix comes soon.
    The car is damn cool!
     
  15. benborp

    benborp Registered

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    It's absolutely possible to dial in a decent FFB experience with a DD wheel with the Caterham as it stands at the moment.

    The amount of fun I have had with it in the last few hours has not been a waste of time.

    There are several reasons why this car may legitimately need a different approach to other cars that are ready out of the box.
    One of these being that I believe rF2 simulates FFB as it is directly applied to the steering column. A lot of the cars we drive in rF2 will generate significantly higher forces than the Caterham for a variety of reasons, but then many of them will also have measures to moderate those applied forces between the steering shaft and the driver's hands. rF2 doesn't replicate power steering systems, our rigs won't necessarily have the same dimension wheels or be capable of replicating the fidelity or range of the simulated forces. The wider variety of cars in rF2, the wider variety of hardware on which it is used, the more likely we are to have to use the adjustments available to dial the experience in to something that satisfies each one of us. If particular hardware or configurations struggle then S397 should be looking for answers - but they require us to spend more than ten minutes on the range of possibilities open to us for a solution if they are going to get decent feedback.
     
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  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I am slowly becoming huge fan of this cars handling, and for FFB I have a zero complaints. Wouldn't complain if FFB was stronger, I personally choose to max out caster on this one, but I enjoy it with 3.5degs of caster too. I use thrustmaster wheel, feels fine to me. Perhaps there is some other unrelated bug. BTW one of few times I drove this car out of garage, it had almost none FFB, just restarting from garage fixed issue.

    Speaking of handling I think it is wonderful in a dry and in wet too, and also new track suits this car nicely.

    I watched some of Hoyer stream, he didn't drive this well. In my hands it is brilliant, maybe because I have tons of driving time with 50s and 60s cars, I am able to deal with lift off oversteer well and I can rather well keep car on the neutral steer phase (all tires same slip). This car indeed gives 50s cars vibes, lovely. Also does have some of 60s 911 vibe, which also is rotated not just with steering wheel. Modern racecars guys don't have these techniques...

    Speaking of neutral steer. You won't have lots of FFB self aligning while you do neutral steer. This is not AC where FFB is kind of prebaked, and you never get light FFB when neutral steering, rF2 does this properly, but maybe some people is unfamiliar with the feel. You are NOT SUPPOSED to get info from FFB at this phase. Because you neither understeer, neither oversteer. You are supposed to be very active with steerign at this stage, because you must expect car to turn into any of the two, and you have to be in tune with it. ITS PHYSICS NOT FFB.

    Sometimes with this kind of car, you should not fully correct oversteer at mid turn, and use it to get more car rotation to make turn faster. This rotation of rear end sliding is creating opposing force to the cornering force of front tires, making steering feel light. Modern cars also does it, but differently, for way shorter moments that you don't even control consciously like you do with car like this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
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  17. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I wouldn't say car is waste of time. But it is a bit absurd that it gets released with some kind of sequential shifting physics, clearly invisible objects in some views - which is a biggest issue IMO. I wish others gets FFB sorted out, but it is unclear how much of it comes from wrong expectations and how much of it is related to some kind of bug/hardware thing.

    Oh, I also found one issue today. AI is CRAAAAAZY slow in the wet. Definitely should and could be fixed fast. As most of the issues with this car.

    Also WTH is wrong with signing up to online and CS, I just can't get in anywhere....
     
  18. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Hmm, i have a CSW 2.5
    Even @ 150% is there nearly nothing from FFB.
     
  19. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Perfect for GT-40 Mk 1.
     
  20. MileSeven

    MileSeven Registered

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    I’m not there yet… I’ve tried increasing the in+game FFB above 100% and I end up with violent high-frequency vibrations.

    I *have* got extensive real world experience with 7s and the current 1.0 version feels more like my Westfield (lighter steering, less feedback, less detail) than my Caterham used to.

    I am quite enjoying it but I crave stronger, more realistic levels of force without artefacts such as the high frequency vibration.
     
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