Released Caterham Academy

Discussion in 'News & Notifications' started by Paul Jeffrey, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. nolive721

    nolive721 Registered

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    I am also a mid aged chap that is crazy about cars and engines so much that I am doing all my career in this industry despite the painful transition to electrification we are going through
    Trust me most challenging experience in 25yrs

    I canot confirm if only Sunday simracer complained and since I am in Europe far away from my rig I can’t even comment myself about how the Cathe behaves

    just I could get emotional at some point if the car is screwed up considering I have been working at Ford in the era where we helped them in the UK to fit our Sigma engine in some of their cars

    anyway to the Sunday simracers point maybe not all complains come from them you might have also passionate and older chaps who genuinely believe something is wrong so don’t blame the millennials only I would say

    having said that I had my griefs against S397 and what they did to the AMG GT3 with totally unrealistic front grip and total loss of torque in slow cornering
    A forum member tuned car fixed it for me
    Being lucky owner of a baby AMG made me happy even though I had driven only similar layout car to the GT3 as comparative element for my judgement not IRL like you do with the cathe so I have to listen and respect your thoughts and experience sharing

    but finally I think there is value in giving the possibility to us in the Game to tune the car closer to her driving taste while not moving too far of what the real thing is
    If S397 just gave the caster tuning as such possibility I think it would be fair to the hardcore but also casual gamers, would you agree?
     
  2. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    No reason to apologize, i wasn't offended. But in case it still matters to you 100% accepted.
    And yeah, internet. The intermediate causing most missunderstandings among people.
     
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  3. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I don't know of any such tool, and unless there's something specific to the wheel I doubt there is one (software can't tell what the wheel hardware can do, unless it knows exactly what the wheel is). All you can do is multiply the relevant values and checked logged data for FFB output %.

    Well, you can quickly descend into a rabbit hole if you google "steering torque racing car". Any figures you do find you need to be wary of peak forces vs sustained cornering forces. Anything with power steering resolves to "it depends".
     
  4. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Tbx for this hint.
    My bad English skills..
     
  5. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    In a circuit that only has one slow corner, a high caster will always be better, there is no doubt about that, the low caster is good for circuits with many slow corners, if it is not absurd to have a low caster

    it's very curious, you don't move your head much to use VR;):rolleyes:
     
  6. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    I remeber one discord user saying that in his wheel, there is separate caster ffb setting. Moza wheel base it was iirc.
    I think that kinda variable in the game software would be very useful. If set at some predefined value for a speciffic car, and on top of that some user control to fine tune it for their wheel, that would solve alot of problems.
    I think it might even give developers more freedom when making physics for the cars.

    And about the caterham physics, it's not that bad, that i may have made it to be.
    Clearly some suspension physics was changed along with the tires, cause the old car (1.00) would have had way too soft suspension for these new tires.
    It's hard to point out exactly what i feel is wrong with it (the 1.05).
    The 1.00 was clearly much harder to drive. Not gonna say anything about it's realism, as i haven't driven the car in real life. But the tire grip and suspension were in perfect harmony in the first release imo. It had logic that if you respected it, it drove beautifully.
    I didnt try the old on wet road tough. and the new, in turn feels very believable in wet.

    Maybe creating the new tiremodel, they didn't have that much focus on road tires. ( i mean why would they, the slicks on old gt and gte cars needed the the most attention). So the new tiremodel might still be in WIP state on part of road tires.
    I like the car, it is fun to drive, but it doesn't feel engaging enough to pass as academy car for me. It is too easy to make consistent laps, while chewing gum at the same time (figuratively speaking) .Also the grip is so much now, that usable camber angles are very limited, because you have to sort of limits it's body roll with rather conservative camber angles, for the suspension to be able to handle it.
    Hopefully some fine tuning for it is happening behind the scenes, and we get the results in later time.
     
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  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Hey, nice driving maybe I'll find an opportunity today to enter that server too. And I don't say that Caster doesn't have this effect as you say, I just say that it probably isn't as significant that it wouldn't be worth to use to fit a certain driving feel taste or driving style. Ialso expected to see tire loads, but probably I misunderstood the point. The fact that you can drive fast with low caster too (or maybe even slightly faster) doesn't surprise me. It is still mainly a feel related thing.

    By the way speaking of caster and reasons why it has to be certain angle for certain speeds. Does simracing even simulate instabilities on highspeed straights related to low casters ? I don't think I ever experienced it in simracing that I'd have to increase caster due to any instabilities, it always has been mostly for feel and to fit driving style.

    Yes indeed, and also beating Caterham motorsports academy lap record by more than a second, I expect he could push more and get into low 20s. Turns out Caterham Academy drivers aren't professionals. Also their records are set in races, but they still should be able to go faster.

    And of course all that sideways... doesn't look very flattering for a driver, might also be wrong caster value, shame they don't use properly modeled tire such as slicks that get glued to the road. While at it.. perhaps some downforce. And then perhaps some turbos. Stiffer suspension of course. Streamline the bodywork. Call it GT3 or GT4.
     
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  8. marmagas

    marmagas Registered

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    18 pages so far...
    anyone see any dev or better,Caterham dev,opinion-statement?
    :(
     
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  9. Kelju_K

    Kelju_K Registered

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    CTMP literally has one slow corner. otherwise its very fast track. yet 3.6 is perfect caster for that track (for me). no issues for correcting slides, or nervousness on exits. perfect aimability for turning in to apex. i rest my case.

    I tried to keep my head still purposefully as the the recording just felt so god damn jittery on first attempt. my neck literally got stiff because of it :D
     
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  10. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    This is probably the main issue and what I was trying to explain. No wheel will be able to reproduce real life forces including crashes without clipping, they're all too weak compared to forces that can happen in reality.

    Any user trying to avoid clipping or simply reducing the forces to avoid injuries and make the wheel less dangerous will see reduced forces in all cars compared to real life.

    Here's where the multiplier is useful so that all cars are manageable with the same wheel setup. The cars with the heavier FFB will feel lighter because that's what you want or what you can get from your wheel and still be a challenge, and your lighter cars can be closer to real life by unlocking more power in your wheel through the multiplier.
     
  11. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    It already seemed strange to me hahahaha, so I achieved it, good lap then I'll try to see how slow I am (although I don't know what grip the track will be with, that influences a lot)
     
  12. juanchioooo

    juanchioooo Registered

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    I think this thread is about FFB;)
     
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  13. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Could be true about suspension, but tires themselves also add to the suspension effect.

    I drove 1.0 in the wet at WWT, it was pretty awesome. I have no doubt the tweaked tire will be just as good or better.

    Also you'd love 50s racecars, or 60s racecars that had lift force and didn't use very wide tires. These cars usually were very balanced needed similar driving with similar amount of grip (50s less though, late 60s probably just as much), they would drive rather loosely and you would need to use plenty of mid turn balancing around neutralsteer and normal grip cornering. 1.05 is still doing all that but at lesser degree, not as much as 50s-60s narrow hard rubber tires would.

    50s and 60s cars weren't complete slide festival, I think it was fine and fun, but we have seen some people calling 1.0 floaty, imprecise and so on... which in reference of modern racecar with downforce, 1400kg+ and fat slicks is probably understandable.

    I'd say after watching some Caterham Academy racing in Youtube yesterday, that 1.0 probably was bit too loose. And laptimes being not very much better than Austin Minis also was perhaps a bit surprising.
     
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  14. marmagas

    marmagas Registered

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    free stuff even deserves Dev feedback:cool:
     
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  15. sk8

    sk8 Registered

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    Any workaround for the gears? Can't skip a gear in manual.
     
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    What questions do you have ? I think the thing developers does, updates and fixes they offer reflect their opinions.
     
  17. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    We have precise and documented feedback from Catheram users who tell us that the caster is mostly set by real drivers around 4, sometimes 1 more or less, but not much more.

    The setting of version 1.05 is 6, maximum, which seems to satisfy disgruntled simracers more than trying to get closer to the set up used by the majority of IRL drivers.

    It calls out to me.

    And 18 pages we listen to each other talk and or we go around in circles, without any intervention from the developers, I don't find that terrible.

    You extinguish a fire by adding a little water, not by letting it spread. But OK.
     
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  18. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Sometimes it seems to me that simracers will grip to anything random to complain about and then just run for it, it is like a meme. It could be anything to choose, and then repeatedly complain about it with some trolling involved. Very fatiguing and irrational. Its good for the developer not to drag themselves into such level. Actions speak louder than words.
     
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  19. pilAUTO

    pilAUTO Registered

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    What they could say for example is if in terms of physics and therefore of the FFB they think that this version 1.05 is practically final, in the sense that it suits them, or if according to their knowledge and can to be even relevant remarks here they intend to improve their version, if so if they wish they could tell us if they wish to adjust the caster or other.

    Obviously they are masters of the information they give, if they think that we do not need to know what would change, it is their right.

    I think that would be nice, rather than saying nothing at all. And by the way, my post wasn't aimed at anyone.
     
  20. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    They always intend to improve what they release, I think that's out of the question. If you're waiting for some confirmation that the naysayers are right, I guess you'll have to keep waiting.

    Perhaps we should finally accept that some will like the car, some won't. Some won't have a problem increasing the multiplier, some will. Some will enjoy and learn from a new experience, some will hate it.
     
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