I Lower caster angles usually give more steering feel. This is because you better feel the forward shift of the pneumatic trail when slip angles increase. Too much caster will result in a lot of mechanical trail and lots of steering wheel torque (strong ffb in sim racing terms). But it will be hard to notice the pneumatic trail shift, and therefore the limits of the tires. I have not driven the caterham 1.05 yet, but the 1.00 for me had good feel at 150% ffb. Alltough seemed that the tires were a little bit sluggish. I would expect a caterham to be more alert, even on these high sidewalled Avons 'street' tires. I always wonder how a certain car or mod cab end up with bad ffb. It is easy to get the geometry and ratios right, so it must be the tires then. I'm currently working on a mod of my Seven race car (not a caterham, but pretty similar). I filled the physics spreadsheet with all te values of the real car. I used modified tires of the s397 library and the mod drives and handles pretty well with quite convincing ffb / steering feel. I was really surpised by that, considering I'm a modding noob.
I think that would be fixed by reducing the caster and increasing the ffb mult. Why not? Have you tried it?
I will test it later with my Simucube 2 pro, if it's too much light at 100% for the FFB multiplier with 25Nm, there is without any doubt an issue, I will report later as I'm not really hyped by this release. For all the cars, I'm in the 30-60% range.
Without doubt based on what? Your feeling? My laps around Loch Drummond with default conditions generated cornering forces on the default setup of 5-5.5Nm. Bumps and kerbs up to 10, some jolts into the 20s and even 30s. The previous version peaked slightly lower (4.5-5Nm) with seemingly more extreme jolts - I had 50-100Nm spikes on my torque graphs. I haven't delved into specific instances - it may be those huge jolts were from me hitting track furniture at horrific angles as I first tried the car. I (or indeed anyone) can do more testing. (I noticed the v1.00 got uninstalled, but I kept a copy!) ~5Nm isn't to be sneezed at; I'm sure I've seen people state that's what modern power-steered racing cars will tend to produce. (I know that's hardly solid proof, but much of this discussion isn't a whole heap firmer)
@mechanic Yeah but that detail you talk about comes while understeering. While oversteering more caster will give more detail. Furthermore, some people feeling of diminishing mechanical trail doesn't consider as a detail because it results in fading away steering torque, for years there has been dragging this cry about mercedes gt3 FFB, with all sorts of opinions, some liking being alerted about excessive front end slip angles and some freaking out about not having tons of Newton meters consistently in their hands. For that reason devs may have caped peak force at relatively low torque, it should really make the diminishing mechanical trail effect less noticeable. But now we have some guys who drove this car (and yet not entirely same car) 10 years ago (and how quick?) making all the fuss. I'll tell little story. Few years ago I have moved on from my Opel Omega 2001 to Toyota Auris 2013. Auris has basically crap steering feeling, very light and boring. Opel, on the other hand, rather awesome feel and heavier. For short duration of time I had both cars. After couple days of driving toyota, I drove Opel. I was shocked how different steering felt, I even felt uncomfortable driving for a few minutes and iiric didn't get used to it for maybe ten minutes, don't remember exactly it was two years ago, but after two days of driving other car, car that I drove for five years felt much less familiar. Now imagine owning a car ten years ago or so, and then having it in simracing, you are definitely going to make perfect judgement, aren't you. Not to mention all possible mechanical differences and feel of actually being in a car which your brain may have associated with steering feel details. IRL you accept it and get used, in simracing people know that it is few symbols changed in text files away from being as you personally wish. Throw toy away like little kiddo, although could properly get used to it in like 15minutes. This whole FFB talk is really a waste of time, what about vehicle dynamics, handling, LAPTIMES ? Nah - FFB very important, could nerf the car, say goodbye to proper realistic dynamics and handling just to have the newtonmeters that they expect. Also one more thing about FFB, it will never ever be as strong and detailed as real car in same way. Mostly because all the components in steering system has an inertia, guys put on hands on their desk FFB wheel, sqeeze it hard - because people don't know you should hold it freely and they easily overcome all the inertia.
Why wouldn't you just cap down your 25Nm by half in controller and then just use all cars at 1.0 FFB mult ? And you probably would still have 5 something Nm as Lazza pointed out even if you had FFB mult at 1, so now you'll have basically Logitech G2x levels of torque with this car.
Found a good challenge for you guys, beat this, will it be hard or easy to go faster in rF2 ? It was about 22C then, sunny obviously.
Just drove the Caterham again and now I am getting some wierd reflections from below the car and artifacts in the windscreen. Seems there was an update to the car today, so you might want to check that again.
I use 100% in the true drive panel, so I ajust % in the rF2 game, like all the SC users do...I don't want to have 5Nm... yes I have no issue with all the cars about the FFB, and I won't be surprised if the Caterham FFB is bugged, something familiar with rF2....
But what is the right caster for this car? If we agree that using caster as ffb bump, is not adviceable. I still use the rule of thumb for setting it. And i lose some FFB feel yeah, cause it's lower than you might even wanna try? But i have minimized the loss with the canted effects. At least somewhat. Im not sure if the canted effects are read, with the tiny pedal thingy, feels like they arent but didn't test without them so maybe they are? Any way. Here is the video i said i was gonna make. It still feels choppy for some reason, despite of using max settings for recording with the radeon software (100Mb/s bitrate, HEVC, 1440p, 60FPS). Dont really know how to make it better, so sorry if your eyes start to bleed if you try to watch it . I make couple of mistakes where i get some sideways motion,(almost at opposite clock at 7:30) but still it was no problem with the caster setting i have. I dont think i even lost that much time on it. My caster setting is revealed at the end of the video. For my driving style, the caster is 100% correct. And someone said that lap times are good indication of good setup, or something like that. My time in RFRO's CTMP server is 1.39.305 atm. Currently 5th fastest time. https://online.racingfr.net/hotlaps...anadian.tire.motorsport.park/hotlap-2129.html (This is my ego moment @memoNo1 so excuse me if that annoys you) Thats without flat shifting (totally not saying those faster than me are), and proper heel/toe down shifting. That tells me my setup is not that badly off, as comparing my time to others, is more of an sanity check for my setup, than anything else.
Yes you are right, more caster will give more steering wheel torque when oversteering, so easier to catch slides. Anyhow, looking forward to drive the updated caterham. It is probably fully encripted? Would be nice to run it with slicks from the library.
Alright, fixed the issue by rebuilding the shaders. Another issue that I noticed is that AI is completely useless in the wet with the car. I am currently running Okayama with AI at 95 % in the dry wich gives some nice racing, while at Brands Hatch they allmost park in the corners when it rains. I hope this get's fixed because running british cars at british tracks with british weather is a must have.
the car it self feels good in wet tarmac. dunno whats that about ai... i only raced the ham on wet, at drummond with other people. it felt very beliavable. bummer if the ai is not on par with the car.. maybe ai is still at 1.00? dont how these things work. but i know they use different physics..
Pfft. This guy is sliding through corners and overdriving and still gets a fast lap time. I call fake physics on this one... Must drive perfectly smooth at all times!!
In this thread and context, the 5Nm is because that's (about) what the car is producing. So if you set everything up at 100% you'd get about 5Nm. In, say, the IndyCar I think you'd get 25Nm with the same setup, which you probably wouldn't want. There's a general lack of information on what actual wheel torque is produced by racing cars, though there are articles giving some quite high peaks in cars without power steering. I understand most DD wheel owners set their wheel on 100% and turn rF2 down, which means you're not getting the calculated forces. I think this is justified by either practicality (in cars that produce 25Nm in real life) or realism (where cars are calculated very high, but missing power steering or other factors need to be compensated for). If you then jump in a low-force car you need to expect either lower forces, or turn up the Mult so you get the true levels. Is ~5Nm realistic? I don't know. But that's a question more important than how it feels in comparison to other cars.
I didn't mean that at all. Everyone can and should show off their skills. But the longest.. it's clear who has it.. The content in this topic is mostly very interesting. I learned a lot of new things here and took it with me. This is definitely great! @Lazza Which tool do you use to find out how many Nm are currently being used by my steering wheel? And do you have a link where it says how many NM a vehicle has in motorsport or converts in a race? Unfortunately I never found anything useful there.
There have been cases where people measure ffb by different means (extensive discussions on the subject in iRacing forums), so there are several factors to take into account when comparing force levels. With DD-wheels, one common way to avoid any chance of soft-clipping occurring, is to max out wheel output / reduce game-side ffb strength however, that can lead to serious injury. Some say that method also results in better ffb but, I have not found that to be the case over several years of using various DD-systems. I choose to run moderate output at the servo level so if an abrupt jolt does occur for some reason, the maximum possible force will be limited, no matter how extreme the ffb signal. There are tools to detect ffb-clipping and avoid injuries.
If you have access to the iRacing forums, there is a chart with steering torque figures for numerous cars. Otherwise, ask around as I imagine someone has it. I'm not sure if all scenarios are taken into account with such figures (normal situation vs crashing / contact, etc.).
This might be hard to believe, but the video was not really about showing off my skills. It was to prove my point about the caster. Cause who are we to each other here, but just random dudes? One guy says this, other one says that. Some one trying to figure out who to believe, is very hard. Im not even that skilled. Really im not. Im more of an engineer type than competitive type anyways. And even if one was completely talentless, and dimm witted individual, experience of +25 years in anything, gives that person, who ever he/she is, perspective and knowledge that you cant get in just couple of years, no matter how talented you are. (I started playing racing games in the 80's. I bought my first wheel and pedal set in the 90's. Thats when i consider i started simracing). Normally IRL, when people encounter a person in same activities they enjoy, that has been around for decades, that person gets some respect for his opinions automatically. Yet here, im just a random dude, among other random dudes... How else could it even be? It is impossible to transfer the knowledge one accumulates in such a long time, to younger generations, no matter how well you could put words together. So showing in clear way, how my experience alone actually does carry some weight, is pretty much the only way to prove anything in an enviroment like this (a forum). What i think i managed to prove, is that the caster setting has huge effect on grip and driveability of the car, and keeping it even slightly higher than is correct is very bad idea. That was i was after with the video. Also something else: I still think the updated tires have too much grip (on dry surface). My time was good in CTMP, simply because i dont brake almost at all (if you look at the video). Not because im fast or skilled. Its because there is too much grip. Just easing off the throttle was enough in most corners, that most here will brake out of instinct. Thats where they lose so much time, that i appear to be fast in comparison. It appears that the new management reacted too hastily for the complaints about "understeer" and "lack of grip" that mainly came from people, who i think has no place to make such comments. I think it was a fear reaction. Fear of losing more people. Nothing new really. It took several years for the old (then new) managedment to correct the same mistake. I fear, we dont have that many years this second time. I wish they would actually listen to veterans, instead of new sunday racers, who whine about everything.
I have to apologize to you. The anonymous internet It wasn't meant like that in any way. Man, if we both stood in front of each other, you would have understood what I meant. A joke among men. I only realized afterwards that it was your video. and of course I want to benefit from your experiences. sry again And thanks for sharing your experience. For real.
