Bring old UI back!!!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stratoliner, Feb 1, 2021.

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  1. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    I agree there's more moaning than anything in this thread, but there's been plenty of other threads (News area) with suggested improvements and what's missing from the (new) UI already, there's no need to go over old ground constantly by must of us, but at the same time I do agree those in this thread should be more constructive...but that's forums for you!
     
  2. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    careless sloppiness
     
  3. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    I'd say things like the UI and the multiplayer not working together are a huge issue when they stop folks wanting to even bother playing the game, because if that keeps happening well, no one buys, game dies
    Yup for good reason, if it was great absoloutely fantastic then we'd all be posting about how great it is, so it does'nt work very well, so yes we are complaining. As a long time user I would expect you are also aware of the obvious issues with it,for instance anyone with eyes can tell just by looking at the stutter fest that is the watch window for a start. It runs worse than the last UI being a major problem. Do you have any suggestions on improvements that could be made? My first would be making it run smoothly.
     
  4. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    Exactly, improvements have already been suggested, so with nothing actually happening, folks are naturally getting curious as to what is going on, cause nothings getting improved. I would like to know because I wanna spend more money on RF2, but im holding back because the its got to the point that if things keep getting brought up but not addressed, then I'll have to put it into other things
     
  5. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Replay telemetry, lots of design stuff which is dumb, fav servers loading without having them, replays not showing laps/lap times. Race finish doesn't lock the result list in the UI, simple background colour which right now still is eye blinding (this is simple stuff really, just like the size of some buttons that just havent had a fix since day 1, which is just dumb)

    AKA, quite a lot of things. I understand they wanted everyone on the new UI, but it was too early.
     
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  6. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    https://forum.studio-397.com/index....-and-counting-listing-detailed-reports.68017/
    https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?threads/better-ui.68373/page-8
    I'll add: blinding white menu colour that is dangerous for eyesight, inability to uninstall non-workshop content, non-intuitive design.
    Apart from missing features UI is also about pleasant user experience and intuitive usage so that people who don't play the game on a daily basis can get their way through it easily.
    This ui is lacking that.

    It doesn't break the game for me though and I don't want old UI back. It just frustrates often.
     
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  7. boxer

    boxer Registered

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    That's like saying why are people complaining about the current state of rF2 physics engine, the current state of graphical engine or why are you complaining about outdated content since all is already working, just play it?

    The UI is part of the overall experience... or are people forgetting that ISI was also badly criticized for the UI which led them to update the look. And now S397 also decided the UI need to be re-worked..

    If there are not going be improvements in the UI than what’s the point them?

    I believe S397 can reverse peoples opinion by addressing some of the issues and implement some of the changes that Cselt has already made to the BeterUI. Honestly I don't get why S397 appears so resistant to any changes and improvements.

    Some of the issues I see:
    1. Excessive scrolling. (See Cselt – BeterUI)

    2. The use of hyperlinks instead of standard UI controls(Buttons /flat panels), odd color selection, odd control behaviors.

    3. (Related to item 1)

    a) The rFacter2/Race/Watch/Community pages need total re-designs / make it more like ACC/and PC2)

    Why waste so much space with "Competition", "Watch", "Community" panels under the rF2 when all of this could easily fit in a single none scroll able screen. Again See PC2/ACC for how it should be done.

    Angled panels... looks nice but we end up text being cropped at edge of scree, it results in unnecessary horizontal scrolling (these few start screens could be change to the same look and feel as the "settings" or garage "Setup" screen.
    Also colors very inconsistent with the rest of the UI.
    4. Fix Annoying behaviors.

    a) Eliminate the MP/Server update refresh if all I want to do is play single player, why am I being forced to wait through these useless server search/auto updates. Please separate the MP/Comp System from Single player.

    b) Fix the "customize" button in the "rFactor2" page. This takes me to the race page where there is nothing to customize there... IMO this should take you to the "Session settings"

    c) fix sticking scroll bars.

    d) fix unresponsive animated buttons.

    e) eliminate extra unnecessary clicking. (Why do I need to click “Select” after selecting a track or car?

    f) Fix Missing content from list view - Some tracks can’t be selected from list view

    5. While in race: Change the "Watch" window to be more like the old one, Bring chat, and basic session/weekend controls to the main window.

    6. VR – new UI requires excessive head movements (old UI was compact and mostly centered on the screen, this resulted in little head movement compare to the new UI where some of the controls at the extreme edges of the screen.

    7. Fix SVG generation(Can these be pre-Generated?) they are bit slow to load. SVG are missing for some tracks.

    9. Take mouse movement into consideration.. Consider the mouse movement flow. (Top to bottom, left to right). Minimize random movements. (Track car selecting is a good example) . some times I feel I’m going in a zigzag pattern.
    Consider flow and eliminate unnecessary actions.

    That's all I can think for now.
     
  8. dylbie

    dylbie Registered

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    I've gotta say I agree completely with Paul.

    The whole thing is a complete shit show.

    I released the Cortina in December 2019 and spent about 4 hours creating the icons. I was so pissed off at this I got the help of SevenSmiles to speed up the process, which has since been improved on the rF2OnlineTools site. What have S397 done after promising to make a tool? Fuck all.

    I've not fired up rF2 for a couple of months because I can't stomach looking at what S397 have done to the UI. We even have a forum member here improving the UI on his own in the space of a few weeks and making it much better than S397 have done in FOUR YEARS.

    Not to mention the whole embarrassing fuck up of the last update.

    I work in a software team and if we had released an update that had got to production like that we would have all been given a good bollocking and our test team would have probably been given a written warning/disciplinary. The comedy thing about this, is that it's highlighted that the Studio397 testing team is non-existent. And what's next? Oh community beta testing? Isn't that what we've been doing for the last year? I can see no improvement coming from this.

    I seriously hope Studio397 sort their shit out over the next few months as I'm already halfway out the door.
     
  9. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    As Marc allready said, there is a dedicated thread of 60 pages with people giving detailed posts of what's missing and what doesn't work well. What do you think what kind of impression it makes for the user writing such detailed feedback, wich is a free service of the community btw, when basicly 5 percent of the stuff are taken onboard? Do you expect those people to give feedback in the future if they have the feeling that they are getting ignored? Don't get me wrong, I am certainly the last one to be a drama queen, but when I see a developer claiming that all the functionality is transfered then I expect 100% and not 99%. I mentioned a couple of times that the package management isn't fully functional compared to the old one let alone compared to the old Modmanager wich looks like something from the early 90s but works flawless, yet there is nada response in terms of updates nor a post with acknowledgement since months when I last mentioned it in the respective topic. Bring pack the option to sort all the rows and to select and install/deinstall multiple selected components. There you have your constructive example of what's not working for the third time. That's just the package manager. Granted they have improved a few things that I listed, but there is still some way to go before I would claim that all functionality is transfered. Then there are the issues that have been mentioned several times (overly bright design, clickable text, wonky exit management, loading favorite servers etc.) across different platforms and even in the right sections of the forum that I expect them to be fixed by now. This hasn't been done and it backfired.

    Another example: just by scrolling through the car list - and I have a lot of stuff installed - I noticed within two minutes that there are inconsistencies in the car naming with the official content. Why is the DW12 not under Dallara as all the other content? Can you explain that to me? Even if it seems nitpicky, that's sloppy QA at it's best. Stuff like that doesn't happen to Kunos and their success gives them credit. Now get a content dev assigned to it and fix it, but not in one year when five new cars have been released but asap. This is part of the UI aswell as content departement, so see what you can fix for the DW12 aswell. Some PBR updates maybe? Just as a guess to get content up to standards and catch two flies with one hand?

    If I wouldn't have spent my last ten years working as beta tester/dev myself I would propably oversee this kind of stuff but this is exactly the stuff that gives the product the image and reputation of being a constant construction site, because there isn't just the Dallara sorting issues - there are literaly hundreds of those little issues that all add up. And it is an indicator for me, that the beta testers aren't propably as trained as they should be or that there are problems with how the testing process works. Give them a checklist, try to break stuff, intensively use the UI and all it's functions, look for the faults, not the highlights. It's nice to see that they acknowledged this in their last roadmap and that they are working on that area, but this year they will have to show that the meassurements come to fruition. I hope this isn't taken as a rant from an idiot or troll, because I really like the product, but it hurts when I see a dev team with that much experience and such an impressive portfolio doing mistakes, that even my hobby modding team with freelancer beta testers managed in a better way. Piece and out ;)
     
  10. stonec

    stonec Member

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    No I do acknowledge that there are things that don't work well. I just don't buy the critic that the new UI is very different or missing features when it provides almost exactly the same options in a different package. The bugs are an entirely other issue, if the argument is the new UI has bugs or odd design choices that should be fixed I could not agree more. At least the missing replay lap time labels (which is probably the main thing missing compared to the old) was mentioned in the latest roadmap.
     
  11. Paul McC

    Paul McC Registered

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    Again, Do you have any suggestions on improvements that could be made?
     
  12. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    I laughed at this :p

    It seems obvious the new UI was "rushed" into action to support the CS, and it seems reasonable that the old UI was never going to allow that sort of functionality so the change was necessary. I also think some of the things said are a little unfair, like for 4 years only the UI was being worked on when we (should) all know there was a lot going on.

    But, many of the complaints upon release are the same complaints made during the opt-in beta UI phase. Why no progress on those? Completely devalues the testing process and discourages feedback.
     
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  13. Mitch9

    Mitch9 Registered

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    Only progress being done here is by Cselt with his better ui; I wonder if the studio will take his offer for help.
     
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  14. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    I hope Lumins is giving air for S397 to breathe. Either they don't give enough and rF2 is merely a side project, or it is hell to work with and we should be so happy that work on rF2 even exists in the first place. We did get some awesome improvements during this whole year, but I wonder how much of it was sped up as the result of simracing importance rising as a consequence of COVID19, especially because virtual LeMans 24H.

    Look at this, Luminis taking lots of credit for rF2, I wonder what they can do other than just let S397 to have as much time on rF2 as possible: https://www.luminis.eu/solutions/esports-and-rfactor2/

    Not a word about Image Space Incorporated...


    By the way.... this whole eSports stuff... I don't like it. The eSports stuff and the "customers" like Porsche and Mclaren. I bet that we are at best in third place although we imagine being important, and any of us having any thoughts assuming it is worth reading is laughable in comparison to what trully makes the money (money is important).

    Best of luck and best wishes to those S397 guys who are still trying to keep it real somehow !
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
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  15. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    There was some info in the last blogs or roadmap that the competition system isn't solely designed for rF2. This is just my personal theory but maybe the new WEC and BTCC games will be powered by what S397 is building currently. The eSport stuff isn't my thing either, but it helps giving the genre exposure, especialy bridging the gap between real and virtual motorsport. It's the same with FE content. I am not interested in that kind of racing but I can see how it get's more and more an important part of the sim with more potential for customers who are really interested in that kind of racing. Let's see how it plays out.
     
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    @hitm4k3r I put reply in the spoiler as it is offtopic
    I don't believe in any benefit to simracign from eSports, so far I have not noticed any clear evidence. I have not noticed eSports giving rise to the player counts in steamcharts website, perhaps only virtual Le Mans had little temporary impact, but not more than really good development updates can have, and rF2 did come with some nice updates around that time.

    I don't believe in bridging the gap of real vs virtual too. Look at iRacing pro drivers feedback - what changed ? Then the Michelin response after vLM24h, did something happen after that ? Pro drivers also must have some stuff in their minds after competing in those events, but I highly doubt any of them are asked by devs for feedback, I also know that in iRacing drivers were asked not to criticise openly.. In general the drivers now probably will just get agreements to sign not to criticise anything.

    Now that all sounds very pesimistic. And thats because I am very pesimistic about almost everything what is going on. Fake times.
     
  17. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    Doesn't really bother me too much because I spend most of my time in the cockpit.
     
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  18. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

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    I think it's important to look at all this with a longterm POV. The esports stuff helps getting new partners onboard, wich helps funding development. Pretty simple. I am a pessimist myself, but it's clear to me that a new dedicated WEC game similar to what Kunos did with ACC might help expanding the amount of sims that are on the market wich might boost competition and force developers to increase their quality. ISI made the mistake to rely on the success of rF1 wich turned out to be a mistake. Kunos has a similar issue wich forces them to polish ACC as much as possible to offer a clear alternative to their first game.
     
  19. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

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    Nah... I think big money high advertisment level eSports is beginning of the end of it all. Everything is rapidly getting detached from most important things. Simracing lost its purity few years ago already. Simulation and simracing to me used to associate with being realistic, true and honest. But everything is just so messed up at the level which simracing is now, it is hard to think. There is so much false and it is becoming increasingly harder to believe..... in people.

    Feels like it would be best just to go away for few years. Maybe five years, or maybe more. Few habbits needs to be killed at first.
     
  20. willevans

    willevans Registered

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    Since Rf1 the only things that seem to have improved is the physics and the graphics. Everything else seems to be slowly sliding backwards.
     
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