Are sims too "realistic" to produce life-like driving?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PearceYaussy, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. unknwn

    unknwn Registered

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    Why do people keep implying that you need to be able to drive car at its limits to be able to experience extreme car handling situations?
    You don't need to be a fast driver to experience how the car reacts at it's tire limits (understeer/oversteer). Simple drifting/sliding can be experienced without being alien nor driving the car at it's limits. These situations of oversteer/understeer and how the tires "restores" grip will be compared (and as I understand are being critiqued by some people, cough cough Spinelli :D). Inexperienced drivers will upset the car/reach the limits of the tires even driving relatively slow (wrong inputs at wrong time will upset the car) despite driving IRL where real danger is present. There are plenty of videos of drivers overdriving their cars on trackdays and most of them don't die;)
     
  2. Marco Conti

    Marco Conti Registered

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    Physically speaking is all about data. Rf2 is the best by far from a physics code prospective and this should be clear enough to everyone. I ve always seen many comments from people saying that X game or Y mod has far better "feeling" or FFB, which is actually true, it could be, but equally everything should be compared from a pure physics point of view. I.e. Take one single 3d model of a car, same for a track, build the physics files in the same manner accross all your platform (rf2, rf1, AC, etc..) and then compare. There will still be a variable which coming from FFB, so turn off the FFB first and drive without it. Make sure your input are perfectly linear accross braking, throttle and steering. Most probably the end result you will be very similar from a high level prospective simply because many sim\game usually simplify the most complicated physics aspect and is there where the truth lives. What i do love of ISI's products is that they do always work properly (physics) and normally they don't add some new bodged feature just to sell a bunch of extra copies (sameone said ERS?); on the other hand all these amazing features requires and would require a proper documentation (new CPM still a blackbox for modder) which would be probably not enough anyway consiring that most of the modders for the physics side don't have a mechanical engeneering background.
     
  3. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    Good point, and in sims is even harder because you have no feelings, so is easier to make wrong inputs.
     
  4. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    Because some people love trying to dismiss some arguments that make sense
     
  5. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    Has nothing to do with my ego. And by "too realistic" I meant so over the top sensitive that it's NOT realistic.
     
  6. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    Does skid marks on the road from all 4 tires mean I was at least "anywhere close to the limit"? I was driving, I know how "close" I got to the limit. I'm not stupid.
     
  7. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    ...and Pearce stop bitching just because you can't drive for ****! :D Muhahaaa

    But it's just the opposite... I can go fast enough to see/feel when rF2 physics start to fail in terms of realism. Maybe I'm not an "alien" per se, but I can drive for ****.
     
  8. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    Sorry for not understanding that TOO realistic actually meant NOT realistic.
    It was clear as water.

    As clear as the term "over the top sensitive". You are right it is not our ego what you need to review.

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 mediante Tapatalk
     
  9. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    But it's just the opposite... I can go fast enough to see/feel when rF2 physics start to fail in terms of realism. Maybe I'm not an "alien" per se, but I can drive for ****.

    LOL seems I offended a lot of wannabe racers that think they are world champion legends just because they can go fast in a sim. Dont I dare say it's not 100% realistic. Jeez.
     
  10. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    If you must know, I have absolutely no ego. I am a worthless loser that should just go crawl in a hole and never come out. lol
     
  11. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

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    I don't think so either! ;)
    Good humor is definitely a very positive thing

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 mediante Tapatalk
     
  12. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    It's not humor though... I've been through treatment for... well you can guess what. I really do think I'm a worthless pos.

    Jesus I didn't attack any of you, it's just my opinion. Good lord. Sorry I said anything.
     
  13. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    Ah, ok its too sensitive then. Well as we all do know, we miss the sensory stuff you get IRL. I have tossed inputs through into the computer to be processed and then spat out on a monitor, slightly behind time. I can then use what I see on the screen, and what is sent back out to the wheel to judge my driving, that's all. Sound too I guess, but anyway.

    What's with giant roundabout swings too? Because I don't agree with you saying it's too sensitive, I'm now 100% saying that rF2 is the one true sim to rule them all, totally realistic? Get stuffed.

    Yeah, you did insult people there, not that I'm worried though. Chill the eff out man, again it looks like your having a meltdown on the forum
    ...you egotistical wannabe racer, you...:p XD
     
  14. PearceYaussy

    PearceYaussy Registered

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    I'm not having a meltdown. And I'm sorry I come accross as insulting and arrogant sometimes, It's just my Asperger's/Autism or whatever I guess. I really don't think I'm any better than anyone else. If you met me in person you'd understand lol.
     
  15. Old Hat

    Old Hat Registered

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    LOL. Some of you guys deploy the "lack of physical forces" explanation as though it hasn't been used in every sim forum since GPL. I think it's safe to assume that most people are aware of that idea by now and might just have taken it into account.
     
  16. Esteve Rueda

    Esteve Rueda Registered

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    But It's true... and It's the explanation, I don't understand why some people still trying to convince others that is harder than real life and that is unrealisting. We know is harder than real life, and that does not mean is not realistic. Even if you are used to lack of feeling, break the limit and make wrong inputs is as easy as push hard the throttle or turn hard our wheel at 120km/h, you will never do that in real life, because if you do, you wll crash.
     
  17. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Most people will never get anywhere near "the limit" in a real life situation (amateur at a track day, someone playing race driver on public roads etc.) because you'd feel the forces on your body, and your reaction would be to slow down.
    Self preservation, survival instinct. The enormous forces would tell you that you're in a crazy dangerous situation and you'd slow down way before you'd hit the limit of that particular vehicle out of pure instinct.

    So then what? You're driving well below the limit (skid marks doesn't always mean "limit", could also just mean s*** driving), and it feels "easy".
    If you drove identical to what you drove irl in the sim, it'd feel easy too.

    There's no instinct survival reaction in a sim because you don't feel the forces on your body, so you drive way harder and faster than you'd ever dare irl.
    This then leads to snaps, slides, spins and crashes because the limit is very easy to pass in a sim. This will then trick you into thinking the sim is excessively hard to drive.
    Well, it isn't. You're just driving much much harder, just because you can, and because there is zero consequence, unlike irl.
     
  18. Nazirull Safry Paijo

    Nazirull Safry Paijo Registered

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    This is the most famous case of going over the limit. Even in his case, he felt that he can still push it but chose not to.
    So i think its not pushing the car to its limit. More like the limit is the driver himself.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    If all four tires are sliding then you are either close or past the limit. But most people don't push this hard on public roads. I know the limits of my car really well because I have autoxed it and done a few track days. I would say on public roads I drive it at 8/10ths because it isn't worth it to loop it and end up in a curb because you hit a patch of dirty road or something unpredictable like that. You may be pushing your car to the limit on public roads. Who knows. But I hear a lot of people who think they are at the limit because their tires are talking and then I hop in their car and they're pissing in their pants.
     
  20. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    It's okay... don't let it get to you. This is a topic that gets debated all the time and always goes down the same road. I've been simracing for a long time and I tend to over analyze everything to death. As I said before I have a lot of friends who race and the ones that don't also simrace all have the same opinion as you at first. I've come to the conclusion that it's all down to the lack of physical forces that make it so hard. You go around a turn in a sim and it starts sliding and it feels like your hardly pushing.... the problem is there is nothing to actual "feel" so obviously it isn't going to "feel" fast. Some of my real life racing friends have gotten into simracing a little and they all adapt very quickly to the lack of forces.

    I've just had to accept that sim racing is sim racing and racing is racing. Sim racing will never "feel" like a real car. But I don't like the idea of manipulating numbers to emulate "feel". Just emulate the physics and learn to adapt.
     

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