Aquaplaning and Track Temperature Effects

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PLAYLIFE, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    Aquaplaning
    There was discussion last year, even notes in one of the old build ReadMes IIRC, saying that aquaplaning was not yet implemented.

    1. Is aquaplaning actually possible with the current technology?
    2. If 'yes' to 1, are there any plans to implement aquaplaning?
    3. If 'yes' to 2, is it currently in the development pipeline?
    4. If 'yes' to 3, is it a reasonably high priority?
    5. If 'yes' to 4, are the standing water areas pre-determined or are they formed from the track height/elevation variations? i.e., water will collect in a dip because it is sunken. Or are the standing water areas purely random? i.e., you can get puddles on the top edge of banked corners.

    (I should have just created a flowchart :p)


    Track Temperature Effect on Tyre Temperature
    Further, wet tarmac plays another major role in wet weather racing, and that is allowing the driver to cool his tyres.
    This is usually the situation when you have wet weather tyres (whether it be full or intermediate tyres) on a drying surface.
    To avoid tyres overheating, which wet weather tyres on a drying/dry track are highly susceptible to given their soft compound structure ultimately causing excessive wear, drivers will 'search' for wet patches to cool the tyres down.
    You'll see them veer off-line, mostly on straights, to drive through wet patches to provide some relief to the overheating tyres.

    6. Is this 'cooling of tyres' feature possible with the current technology?
    7. If 'yes' to 6, does the road temperature currently interact with the tyre? i.e., will a hot/cold track impart it's temperature onto the tyre therefore affecting its performance?


    Track Temperature Effects
    Combining the two above points with regards to a wet but drying track, I would assume for the 'cooling of tyres' to work would require each part of the track to have its own temperature (and further, standing water/puddles have an effect on the track temperature it currently sits on).

    8. Do different track surfaces (tarmac, concrete etc.) have variables that allow for the surface to have different temperature effects? i.e., tarmac will heat up quicker and reach a higher temperature than concrete given the same conditions.
     
  2. LeChuck

    LeChuck Registered

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  3. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    Start a practice session in the wet and set it to dry out. Off the line it'll stay wet, on the line it'll dry quickly. See what happens. I have done a wet race where I was on wets and sought out wet patches of road to cool them when the line dried and it worked but it was not as drastic as I thought it'd be. The tires didn't overheat at all but it was subtle so it was hard to say if it was me seeking out wet patches or the track temp was just low.
     
  4. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    There's no question the road dries out, but that doesn't mean the track temperature or water on track is interacting with the tyre temperature.

    I would assume currently it's only the higher grip from a dry road causing more friction and thus heating of the tyre, rather than the track imparting temperature into the tyre.


    Do a simple test:
    - set the ambient temperature to 0°C in the wet (heavy rain), track should be cold, note effect on tyre temperature
    - set the ambient temperature to 60°C in the wet (heavy rain), track should be at least warm, note effect on tyre temperature

    There should be a substantial difference.
    Unfortunately I can't test it now, but last time I checked something like this, there was no difference.
     
  5. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    These are great questions and I hope someone from ISI answers them.
     
  6. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    1. Not plugged in yet, but the code is WIP, so yes it is possible.
    2. Yes.
    3. Yes.
    4. Depends what you think is reasonable. I would say more no.
    5. I don't know yet.

    6. Yes, it is possible.
    7. Not fully how it will do, no.

    8. Yes. We even have code WIP which will allow an area in SHADE to have a difference track temperature, and that includes just a moving cloud.
     
  7. CosmiC10R

    CosmiC10R Registered

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    Very cool. Great format to the questions too :)
     
  8. C3PO

    C3PO Member

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    Awesome.
     
  9. Hedlund_90

    Hedlund_90 Registered

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    Looking forward to try out aqua-planing.
    Rain & spray and looks better now even if it's not perfect and I'm sure it will be improved, but what about raindrops on windscreen/visor/camera? When will we see that? (not really asking for a specific date and time, just wondering if it's in the work or on the list). If not, why implement rain spray and not work on the other important weather visuals before moving on to other stuff?

    :)
     
  10. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

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    Yes, great questions, answers and format. Without reading much I now know everything regarding aquaplaning and track temperature effects.

    We did a fun race (clio @ lime rock park) at SR4L last sunday with rain and it was great. The too much grip on the drying line effect wasn't there anymore! Only problem noticed was that the track was still drying too quick (but imho not a show-stopper for rain races).

    I'm looking forward to all those online races in wet conditions! Very interesting and a lot of fun.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2013
  11. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    I was watching a race at Watkins Glen last weekend and it surprised me how fast the track dried under the racing line as compared to the rest of the track that saw less traffic. With that in mind, it would only take a couple of laps once the rain has stopped in order for things to dry up enough for slicks if there is no further rain. I expect part of it is due to the track being heated by the car tires and another part would be the effect of aero lifting the water off the track and blowing it all over the place. This type of environment would be great to race in as it adds so much to the dynamic of the race day event.

    One other thing that might be interesting to get into the sim would be using the wipers after being on track for a while and it starting to rain. There would be a bit of oil on the windshield that would smear with the wiper so going into the pits to have the tear-off removed would be a necessity in order to prevent that type of thing from happening. I guess they would have to implement windshield tear-off's first though, heheh.
     
  12. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Yeah, we have basic code anims, etc. Just need updating, refining, testing... Which isn't low priority, but not top of the list.
     
  13. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    Odp: Aquaplaning and Track Temperature Effects

    Thanks Tim for the answers.
     
  14. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    Awesome mate, appreciate the answers.
    Even if the software hits most of those questions it'll be a huge step in the sim racing experience, honestly can't wait to see where we are down the track.

    Was hoping my ''yes/no'' questions would make it easy and quick for you to answer (hence why I squeezed 8 in ;)
     
  15. Minibull

    Minibull Member

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    This is the kind of stuff that really gets me with the whole thing. Course it's not actually here yet, and it is future stuff, but this is what keeps me excited with this sim. It really is aiming to be a proper racing simulator, and almost everything it entails...except injuries and the cost XD


    A decent wet weather experience usually seems to be missing from most titles. GTR2 had wet weather, and while the reflections were nice, the rain was terrible, raindrops on the window looked like a gif looping and the wipers didnt exist...
    Cut to GTR Evo where rain was a bit better, but didn't really pound down, just little patches on the windshield.
    RBR was good in the way low areas seemed to fill with water. Potholes and dips, etc.

    It also starts to make me feel quite ok with how things are now, especially this crazy round and round about graphics and framerates. I can start to figure out why things don't look spiffing and stunning, there's a ****ton happening under the bonnet. For me the feel changed in the last build, which I can only put down to something has changed. Maybe thats why there has been a tiny drop in framerates.
    Someone tried to compare Real Racing 3 on smartphones to rF2...and all I can think of when I see "optimization" bandied around is cutting corners that we think noone will see.



    If anyone feels the need to respond to that, please, don't think I am inferring that everyone should be happy and placated because of my opinion...
     
  16. John.Persson

    John.Persson Registered

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    This!

    +1

    More realistic immersion please!
     
  17. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    Thanks for the info. Awesome stuff.
     
  18. C3PO

    C3PO Member

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    Just a note that from the 240 Issues Read Me note, air temperature and humidity is not working (yet).
     
  19. F1 2004

    F1 2004 Registered

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    When will be working, Tim?
     
  20. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Wind and humidity. The transfer of tyre heat to air is working, and is presumably influenced by the ambient temp, so that aspect of it is working.

    Various wet track related things are not, as above, plus a wet groove setting so the rubbered line can be made more slippery when the track is wet, plus some others I can't think of right now.
     

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