Unfortunately thousands of enthusiasts simply can't afford that hardware. The vid card itself is around $400. It can end up making rF2 kind of an elitist game.
I would assume that is why rFactor 1 still exists and is still played by many. I am sure that it is no simple task to design a game that can be tried and appreciated by those with older computers, while ensuring that it has the forward thinking to be able to add features that newer technology will be able to functionalize. We are all going to buy a new computer at some point. And whatever that new computer, it will have capabilities that at some point in the past were beyond people's imaginations! What is available today usually ends up less expensive in the future or we get more for the same price. I owned(received it as a gift)rFactor for almost a year before I was ready to commit to a computer that would run it! I have enjoyed rFactor for years now and when the time is right, a new computer will unlock the wonders of rFactor2.
And by next year that hardware will be a total of $400? PC gaming is elitist really when there are consoles. This is a sim though not a game, no cutscenes just constant calculations, it's a cutting edge sim and that is why it needs good hardware.
Good point (though maybe a little exaggerated! ). I myself am always watching the prices creep down. At some point this year I will probably take the plunge into a new vid card.
I don't think you'll find a single person on the forum who thinks content or updates should be released more slowly than the already glacial pace. There are a few who are saying that if payment would help motivate some quicker development by financing ISI's ability to hire more staff, think seriously about it. My concern is that if rF2 is like rF1, its success depends on licensing to other developers who will in turn licence various series or make-up fantasy series or whatever. rF1 was always a great base, but ultimately the titles it spawned from other developers were where all the action occurred. We still discuss those rF1-based titles on here daily and one of them (GSC 2013) receives almost universal praise. Unless rF2 very quickly makes it to the stage where the Reiza's and the SimBin's are willing to pay to use it as a base for their racing games, and has a suitable platform with instructions that the average (non-genius feels3) modder can produce FINISHED product, we are destined to have an excellent quality, badly implemented (so far) niche sim. I love the variety of vehicles in the game, but most purchasers want complete series. Even iRacing falls down on that front. No one cares how ISI runs its business. We only care about the quality of the product, its usability, its popularity (for modding and licensing purposes, not to be one of the sheep using a high volume "game") and ultimately how much that costs us. If rF2 was closer to a finished product instead of still in the middle of beta, most of these conversations would stop. Not because the issues aren't important, but because it wouldn't appear so glaringly like ISI is toddling along at its own pace, singing to its own piper, oblivious to the cliff that its about to walk off. That's overly melodramatic, but we all (or the vast majority anyway) want ISI and rF2 to succeed. So much so that offers of paying for content that you promised and still intend to give away as part of the base cost are forthcoming unsolicited. I would think seriously about the implications of that before dismissing the idea that you need to pick-up the pace of development (by hiring more staff since we all know the current little team is operating as fast as they can be expected to). The old adage that the customer is always right may help you in this regard. By the time rF2 is "finished," it may be too late for all but a few of us hard core simmers. You can be proud that you stuck to your approach and produced a relative miracle given the sparse resources that were available...while time has passed rF2 by and the sim community is off on something else (something that may even be inferior in some ways). And if ISI has enough other resources and business that rF2 can be treated like a skunk works project off to the side to keep a small team busy and there aren't any real pressures to generate revenue from it (or therefore to speed development), then the company has been disingenuous with all of us about the development path for rF2.
Jeez Marc... I don't know if you realise just how negative aspects of that post are. If you do I think it's a shame.
+1 rFactor2 is not wine though. But I still believe you're right. And btw, I am very excited about that space game. It looks like DCS World in space to me. I really hope it will make it all the way to release.
+1 When I race I don't see graphic problems - shadows, and other graphic bugs, because I don't care about it. Real road and physics matters. Assetto Corsa has good graphics. Did you played it? Did you liked it? I played it and don't liked it at all. Cars a glued to road and this game is not challenging for me at all. Another example is DTM from Simbin. They not bad I just don't like them. Rfactor2 is mainly for driving. When driving other titles and then Rfactor2 I see the big difference. Big difference. Let's drive more than complaining about grafics a. t. c. I look for hard core sim, not some racing game. Sent from my GT-I9300
My previous computer was 5.5 years old and I got it so I could play rF1 at good framerates & graphics level. I saved my pennies and bought this one when it was time, when rF2 had seasoned enough (oh, there's that wine analogy again! Or is it firewood? LOL). Many people forget (or weren't around) how rF1 went through a similar beginning... check the changelogs of all the different versions of rF1 and you'll know that rF1 had as painful of a birth as rF2 is having.
To me RF2 is the best sim out there, but I don't think there should be a price on DLC. I paid $85 roughly for life time version, I paid the same for BF4, I don't have to pay for BF4 updates, they just fix the problem and release it when ready. To me ISI do the same thing sort of, they are increasing the content as well, I do think I wish there was quicker updates and I know there are some people that have their doubts because of the slow releases , In the League I belong to, there have been some members saying that they may look elsewhere and there were a few grumbles when we announced the switch to RF2 fully. I don't know if the lack of modder content is because people don't like the unsurety about updates and I am disappointed at the lack of such content, but hey, I can't mod for **** so I can't complain. I feel that ISI still produce the best physically correct content, I like the way that cars feel, they are hard to drive and you have to practise to get better. I,m sure real race cars would be this hard to drive or everyone would be doing it. I own the URD gt mod, and I've seen pages of posts asking when the next content will be released there as well. I want the updated content too because I paid for it like the others have, in fact , I was dead against payware and still am, I think the URD mod is good, but not the greatest mod around. To me it has too much grip. The ISI cars don't have that grip until they are setup properly . Now this is only my opinion and I,m sure there will be guys out there that don't give a stuff about what I say. I have been an RFactor ( 1 and 2 ) owner since the 1st prerelease of RF1 for online code testing. I wont be changing to anything else. And yes I don't have the best hardware, I run 3 monitors but I set up my graphics to give me good enough FPS. It might not look the best but when I am racing online I am only looking at the cars around me and how I can get in front of them But I will say this. I can't see the point of people posting signs saying beware of the trolls etc, people should be able to express their opinion, wether you like it or not. After all this is an open forum.
According to rfactor.net, rFactor2 runs best with: - 3.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo or 3.0 GHz AMD Athlon II x2 or better - 4GB RAM or more - nVidia 250 GTS or ATI/AMD 4870 or better - 512MB Video Memory or more I think it would be a good time for ISI to update these specs. In particular 512 MB video memory. I seriously doubt Silverstone can be made to run smooth with any graphic settings on 512 MB video memory. The PC specs that Assetto Corsa recommends are much closer to truth to what you need in order to have a good experience with rFactor2. To the last poster, rFactor did not require a monster machine to run. I personally raced in a league with a PC bought in 2004 without bigger issues. I then bought an upgrade in 2006 which ran almost every track at 200 fps. The ISI recommendations for rFactor were: Runs Best With - Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 processor - PC Windows XP - 2048 MB RAM - Geforce 7900 GT or Radeon X1900 GT These are much closert to truth than for rFactor2.
Rf2 : currently the best physics & best ffb -these are the most important things & the real strengths of the isi team ( I feel ) Right now ( for ME although I know some are very happy .... Good for you -so please these people there is no need to have a dig ....mentioning no nasty names (-; ) it's a mess It's kind of sad to read through the forums right now as I'm guessing a lot of others seem frustrated Isi make rf2 more mod friendly ( I could be wrong but I'm suspecting it's not ? ) In 2 years time it could be " the sim " -after some more quality mods & everyone's upgraded their hardware .....assuming they'll be a GOOD few builds between now & then, including sound etc ( 2 years is based on current progress rate ) I'm checking into the forums a couple of times per week, interested in what the next build may bring.
What decision are you talking about? I am speaking for myself, obviously, as well as for others. It is ISI's decision to do what they think is best. I was simply encouraging them/Tim to think about the options when people are willing to pay more.
I wonder if you found 300 people willing to pay for a programmer's salary... I don't know, let's go $60000 as enough to make someone with marketable skills willing to contribute to something they think is worthwhile... so $200 each, would that one extra person on the team improve the rate of progress (currently at 'glacial' by your post above) to a region you'd consider worthwhile? Hey, it's a big hypothetical, just putting it out there... sounds like you're simplifying the 'options' a bit...
The main thing is more so that the common gamers don't know what it takes to develop features and content on a game that is released, let alone doing it from scratch. Building the World Racing Simulation prototype I have had to deal with a lot of issues that we thought would be quick to get through, but the smallest things ended up taking up the longest times and causing the longest headaches. A small thing comes up and we thought, ok this is what we need to do to fix it, and by doing that, a bunch of other things came up. I love rF2, I love it more than rF1 and more than AC and more than pCARS. Some might say I am biased because I run a mod group that modded rF1 and mods rF2, but that is not so. I have the development experience to understand not only how great rF2 is in a technical standpoint, but also how great its potential is to those modders who use it the right way. When people ask ISI to implement something new or fix something that is broken, its not as simple as going to the code and fixing the error, like I said above, issues can bring other issues upon other issues and this extends the development time. No one likes for things to be released broken, yet they complain when ISI take the time needed to fix any issues...you can't have it both ways. In addition, don't blame ISI if mods are not good enough. ISI don't develop mods and if a mod group is not capable of taking advantage of all the potential rF2 offers, that is not ISI's fault. In regards to content, I'm quite shocked that some suggest ISI's content is not a lot or being released fast enough. Seriously??? You got 17 different unique vehicles covering nearly every single genre of motorsport. You also have 11 unique tracks each with a number of variations...I am just appalled that some people think that is still not good enough. Are you so used to Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport that you expect PC developers to develop thousands of cars too??? PC developers don't have 40-60million dollar budgets. Then you have people complaining that its never final, its constantly being updated...do you guys seriously hear yourselves? Do you same people go and complain that pCARS and AC are constantly being updated? Games constantly being updated is something that has existed in the gaming world for many years. Granted in the racing genre it has not really been done in this method until more recently, but this is a bad thing? Hundreds of people complained that the original rFactor was just left aside and not updated, and now ISI is taking care of their new game and updating it with features, content and fixes, and we're complaining that they are doing so??? Some people in this community need a serious reality check I'm telling you. I am so sick and tired of hearing people bag on ISI or rFactor 2. rF2 has improved so much since the day it was released, and granted it doesn't have many mods on it yet, though I see that more so because many mod groups want to act like cry babies rather than knuckle down and learn the new systems. This is the game we have, its a great game that will only get better, lets make the most of it.
I dont Think People are complaining that the product is being updated. The issue is that the updates are sometimes a step backwards and many basic features are still buggy even though the beta period is long over. By now it should really be a sim with fully functioning features and the updates should implement new fully functioning features. AC and pcars are very clear about being early access so not comparable with rf2 imo.
Petros, very well said & just to illustrate your point about programming: I think people just need to get over themselves with the semantics of things (alpha, beta etc). The fact is rf2 is not a complete product yet, we all know that but as it stands it offers more in the racing sim experience than any of those titles you mention. For me personally, the physics, FFB & overall immersion (as in like the boy in me feels like he is really racing) of a handful of the ISI cars/tracks is enough that keeps me coming back to this one sim over the others, even with its problems/opportunities. And this is what it boils down to. How you choose to see, read in to or feel about ISI's vision and culture. Is rf2 a 'problem' in your sim racing or do you see it as an 'opportunity' for great things to come? If the former, then you need to write it off as a bad investment and move on. If the latter, then I think you need to support these guys. And by support I don't mean praise absolutely everything they do, but to provide constructive feedback. I am not sure how telling a company 'Increase your sales revenue to hire more staff to increase development rate' sits as 'constructive' feedback. My view is that a small team of talented developers with a huge passion for motorsport, are constantly pushing new boundaries to bring a sport I like into my living room. I for one am thankful, it has been one of the best ££'s I have spent in 2012 and really do believe in their vision and am humbled by their dedication and hard work, albeit a slow progress compared to some big budget developments. For me, the basis for this game has created an opportunity for one of the best sims to come in the future. I think taking it away from that vision and culture (i.e let make it into iracing model or DLC model) then changes the heart of the sim just because we have evolved in a society of 'must have everything and have it now'-sapiens.
