Better performance needed

Yeah sure take your point, but when it didn't work (for me)I did a lot of testing and further research and I'm far from the only one saying the same thing. A performance increase can only be measured by a benchmark and a benchmark tells you nothing of how fluid the feeling is when you are actually controlling a simulated vehicle. It felt less jerky with crossfire disabled, so better with only 1 card enabled rather than 2 or 3. The FPS told a different story. You could get used to it if you were not trying to simulate something that you actually do for real, but my machine is used for two types of simulation, both of which I do for real. I want to get as close to real as possible. Crossfire didn't help that at all, the opposite. Anyone else is free to form their own opinion.

 

Exactly......every computer has it's own personality......I don't have everything maxed out...I just found my sweet spot until ISI deliver their optimised version but for now I range between 60 to 110 fps.....and I'm still on 10.6 drivers, for my system and I have no Idea why, but every new driver beyond that just don't deliver.

 

Is there any limitations of what GPU I can install to my pc? (available slots, cooling problems etc.?)

It's Acer Aspire M3420/AMD A10-5700.

 

There is only a single PCIeX16 slot on that motherboard, so you would only be able to install one GPU. From what I have read, there is nothing specifying what you can install and what you can't, but I did read that there is no physical limitations for the install of a double width GPU, which more are now with the fans that are on them. That being said, if your system has the HD 7XXX series built into the APU, then you should stick with the 7XXX for an extra card you put in if you plan on using the hybrid crossfire features. If you are just wanting to change, then you can go with either the ATI or nVidia products.

 

Thank you very much for your answer

Maybe I just buy the best I can get with 150€ and hope that it's a 7xxx card That way I can use it both seperately or use hyprid crossfire.

 

One caution - bigger faster video cards soak up much more wattage, typically more than a pre-made computer can actually support as the PSU in them is geared to service the provided video card, and has next to no additional capacity. You will probably need a new PSU.

On the Xfire debate - I've not had any microstuttering or FPS issues with my OC'ed dual MSI Lightning 6970s on any game in crossfire, even reaching back as far in time as Unreal Tournament 2003 -- except for rF2 where the game is unplayable with dual or single cards, giving a fps of about 20. Tom's Hardware did point out that higher-end cards like mine had far less reported problems with Xfire in general than did lower-speed models like 6850s.

 

I don't think PSU will be a problem for mid range cards that he is buying, they are not that power hungry. But there might be a problem with PSU not having the required 6pin connector but you can buy some converter cable so that is not a big issue.

 

I went to ask about GPUs and they said the same about PSU. They could not tell me if my PSU is sufficient for example for HD 7770. Apparently only way to get that info is to open up my pc and look at the PSU.

I saw the PSU model and I think it's this one:
http://www.barebonekit.net/liteon-ps-5221-9-220-watt-power-supply_i_pwslteonps52219.aspx.
Seller said I would need something between 400-450 Watts PSU for HD 7770. Does this sound right?

oh, and my pc is X3475, not M3420. Also, seller did not mention anything about required 6pin connector

 

Nvidia gtx690

 

For 150€...I'll buy 10! ...

Back on topic. 400W PSU is overkill for this GPU even if it is recommended you can probably get away with less powerful PSU if it isn't some cheap no name thing. 220W as you have (based on specs of the X3475) is very weak but it might still run the HD 7770. Look at this article:
http://vr-zone.com/articles/amd-radeon-hd-7770-performance-preview-bringing-28nm-gcn-to-the-masses/14879.html
At the last picture there is 223W usage from the whole PC. So you might be somewhere around there too, depends on other components. Hopefully the PSU has the 6pin connector (can be seen in the 1st picture in the article).

 

Are you sure that the wattage shown on that meter is for the whole PC? I saw nothing that indicated that was the case in that article. In order to determine the requirements of the PSU you would need to find the maximum power usage for each component of the system and add them together to be sure that there was enough power to handle things if everything decided to use max power at the same time. Without a PSU that could support max power, you take a chance that your system will fail due to lower power state.

Things you would need to look at are:
Hard drive 10w
DVD drive 30+w
CPU about 100+w
Motherboard about 75w
GPU 100w
each stick of ram
each fan
any lights on the system
every USB device connected to the system
every other device that isn't covered that uses power such as keyboard, mouse etc.

The HD 7770 Ghz edition from Gigabyte alone uses 100W of power maximum. That is nearly half of the available 223 the article you are talking about says is in use.

If you look at the numbers, that figure can't be for the entire system unless they are just running the mb, CPU with heatsink, GPU and ram.

It is likely that the wattage that the meter shows is just what the GPU uses at maximum power.

 

You have 2 pictures - the upper reads 136,5 and that is whole PC idle (above the picture: Idle Power Usage with Intel Core i7-3960X), then the 223 picture (Load Power Usage (Furmark) - +90W from idle to load, which is outstanding considering its performance). So around 90W is the GPU.

In this case (Acer Aspire X3475):
Motherboard 38W
each stick of ram 3W (probably 4) = 12W
CPU 65W
HDD 20W
DVD 25W
GPU 90W
______________
250W

In theory PSU would not be powerful enough as it is 220W. That is if you run everything (CPU,GPU,DVD,HDD) at 100% at the same time but that never happens. So yea, entire system is using 220W in that picture.

Yes GPU is one of the most power hungry components in a PC, besides CPU. Only half of the available W is pretty good, top single GPUs need like 300W GPU alone that like 2x as every other thing combined (not even talking about crossfire...).

 

Not sure where you are getting your numbers really Abriel, and sorry if it seems like I am trying to argue, but the Intel i7 3960 TDP is 130w not 65w. That along with the GPU still puts quite a strain on those numbers. Just the CPU and GPU alone would be 220w. I am sure it is possible that the motherboard and CPU are running under voltage as well as underclocked to keep the power requirements down in order to get away with such a low PSU, but in order to be safe, you have to rely on the TDP values in order to be sure a system won't have issues later on.

EDIT: One other thing to consider is that most all PSU's operate their quietest and perform the best running at 80% power usage, so getting a PSU that can handle the power requirements while running at 80% is the best solution.

 

You are right about Intel i7 3960 TDP is 130W but I was talking about Acer Aspire X3475 (TIG_greens PC, uses AMD A10-5700, TDP 65W).
Obviously the article has a bit more powerful PSU but still in that test whole PC uses 223W. Furmark is a GPU stress test so CPU is not running all cores at 100% so it certainly does not consume 130W (I think it only uses 1 core, so it would be probably around 130W/4 = 32,5W + some system processes on other cores so lets say 40W).

For the test I would say something like this:
Motherboard 38W
each stick of ram 3W (probably 4) = 12W
CPU 40W
HDD 10W (probably even less)
DVD 5W (probably even less)
GPU 90W
__________________________________
195W (+ PSU efficiency and fans and mouse, keyboard, etc)

So yea 223W is definately whole PC (without monitor).

About where PSU operate the best and quietest is not so easy. Yes it definitely is not at 100% usage, but also not the same for all at 80%. About quietness it is really the same as GPU - depends on the profile of PSU fan - some may kick the fan to 100% earlier.
About where they perform best that is very complex - every PSU has a efficiency rating and that is a graph that is different for each load. It is usually best (optimum efficiency) at around 50% usage. So if your PC uses 200W under load and your PSU has best efficiency rated at 50% usage you will want a 400W PSU. But you are not running your PC at 200W all the time, at idle it only uses 100W for example and that is only 25% usage for that PSU. So the optimum PSU would be to have idle and max power both as close as possible to peak efficiency (50%).

 

Got it, I missed where you said "In this case". No idea why I skipped over that part. Makes more sense now.

 

Hd 7700 is not mid range. You will be very disapointed in it's performance for any modern games.

Mid rang is 7850/7870, high range 7950/7970.

7700 is not meant for modern gaming and at max graphics, ESPECIALLY if you want some anti aliasing (besides fxaa).

If you play games then get atleast 7850/7870, unless you dont mind disabling aa, and/or turning down alot of your graphics settings/resolution

 

Ok depends how you define mid/high range.

Yea mid range or low range or whatever you call 7700 is not meant for max graphics.

But if you would read the thread instead of making some useless suggestions (again) you would understand that he has max 150€ to spend on graphic card (and even that is more that he said at the start - 120€).

 

It's worse than that check out his OP....

Even with your increased budget you're going to have to look at going 2nd hand.

You have 2 hopes, Bob Hope and no hope, alas Bob's dead.

 

The gtx 690 was totally a joke. You can get a used 6950 for $150, which is probably about 120 euros