I've just realised that the current steam version is driving nothing like the version I have in Dev mode. I may have uploaded the wrong tyre but yeh I'm just looking to see where the error has occurred. If you've tried them in the last couple of days since the update.... that is not even close to how they're supposed to drive! They're absolutely #&^%(&. Really sorry about that. Please try them again after the next fix.
The joys of rFactor 2 modding... If I had programming skills, I would create a drag and drop interface to build mods... auto-filling-in the several core files with the file names dropped or the typed data supplied on each dialog box.
LUL i mean the cars do have tendency to terminally understeer but i just thought you had recreated osella well LUL well lets see the fixes
Chance that i didn't tested it yesterday... i would have been so embarassed to tell you the truth in my feedback lol
Ok everything is fine now guys. It was down to a user error my end so nothing was actually messed up other than the Benetton aero - and that wasn't 'messed up' as much as it was a bad default car setup idea. All cars except the Benetton were working fine since the update. The Benetton has had a minor aero balance change in a fix but otherwise no changes.
Just had a blast around Brands Hatch in the Benetton, qually tires, low fuel, max boost, max aero. What a drive (all 2 laps of it before the engine blows up anyway lol) . I'm so happy with how the mod is driving now and I really do feel as though the phyics are fully complete - the last tweaks made to the tyres are the last peice of the puzzle. It feels just as difficult to drive as I think it should, with the right grip levels and a sense on each corner that there is always something to gain with better driving. The old tyres, being essentially fromt limited in all occasions, made driver skill less relevant in terms of corner speed. Now we have a biting front end, which really allows the driver to point the car much better, but whilst also having to consider what those inputs do to the rear end. Before 0.43, the rear end just sort of trailed behind regardless because of too much rear mechanical grip. Now 'just' 10 more iterations to complete the field and we'll have what we've been waiting for. But in my mind, the hard work is done. I hope we can have a fix from s397 regard turboRPM sound variable for the turbo / backfire sounds as I really miss them and a lot of time has gone into them. We will see.
Yes agree with all your comments the car is just right the balance and you can definitely feel the front biting hard. I agree physics are now close to perfect. I love the challenge of trying to keep the revs up to sprawl the turbo, because drop below the turbo kicks in and feels like a 4 cylinder but as soon as the turbo kicks in watch out. And what I love about what you have done is realism - the Osella is around 7 seconds off the pace and that’s in physics where every other mod the car the physics are the same for each car and the modders have to use rcd to slow/speed the ai spread. Hoping you’re on the home straight now and the other 10 cars will come sooner rather than later. It’s an awesome mod, congratulations again. Question: when I select the Benetton on the 1986 track pack (3.1) it’s in the Ferrari garage seems to be consistent. Isn’t that normally controlled in the veh file pit lane order?
That's not going something I'm going to undertake - graphics is really not my domain, but mainly because I think, the workload/return doesn't quite check out with 14cars*16 races. If I decide to do some I will perhaps do the Malboro promotion - the yellow Mclaren from Portugal. Which in beautiful irony, retired due to a smoking engine. Also the multi coloured Benetton tyres for Detroit, but that is technically tricky because of a different colour per corner. Those will be waiting atleast until after all the other cars are complete. But honestly I don't think that I will do even these. One think that I will probably do is minor physics variations for a couple of car variations we have models for - that being the Osella Fa1g/h and the Hass thl1/thl2(notably the engine(v8 vs v6). For these cases, it would be appropriate for one driver to tave the old car, and one in the latest car, which is easy enough to do I think. The same could be done for the arrows a9, which we do have the model for. However, the car was a flop (it actually was too floppy) and was pulled to be replaced by the A8, so I think it makes sense to cut it from the pack.
No worries understandable, any hint on the next car release? Another idea might be to release templates and get others to add sone skins?
Ah good so that it was accurate then, i have been noticing the cars do suffer from high speed understeer quite alot. to my understanding the overall downforce should be fairly similar to 1982 with cars on average with 1982 car having tons more at high speed and this one more at low speeds but the car is still fun even if it understeers bit too much for my liking. I'm sure with setup tweaks that could be easily remedied though and it seems some tirepressuretweaks and stuff like that gives the required neutral handling. Now in terms of osella its just fine as it is. its supposed to be bad. otherwise it would not do those laptimes. and on that car you really feel the lack of power and downforce. when i drove the brabham it was like it would have been a different series of cars. as osella has 200hp less to my guess since its still the 1983 alfaromeo engine. So it does feel that that at high speeds the downforcebalance shifts much more to the rear and causes the front to lose grip. given the effect is lessened compared to what it was prepatch. The softer tires balance this out to an extent so for example softs dont suffer as much from it but the mediums do. The issue might be something to do with diffuser downforce center being too much back that when the car gets diffuser working the car becomes progressively more understeery. in 1980s people would not have that much knowledge of things like this due to limited computersimulation and this was a problem with groundeffect cars since the downforce pressurecenter could be too forward like lotus 78 and require a big rearwing to balance it out, or it could be too back what would give you lots of understeer at speed like what is happening here. The corner i noticed it the most is the old kyalami corner number 2 after the front straight corner, since that is almost flat on even 1970s car and this car seems to struggle turning for it. This is just something i noted when i was driving the car myself. you can decide if its useful or not its fine either way. good work!
Very interesting thank you. One thing that might help with the f/r balance at speed is stiffer rear springs. The rear tend to compress more than the front at speed due to relatively softer springs and more rear downforce generally - this gives both negative rake and increases the diffuser effectiveness. Overall pushing the CoP backwards. In my brief reseach of diffusers, I found that the ability to provide a forward balance of downforce was considered good design as it showed the low pressure region sustained along far forward from the rear lip if the diffuser (where the pressure differential is initiated). So in the Benetton for example, the diffuser is primitive and probably provides far more force to the rear tyres than the front, whereas the Mclaren has advanced somewhat and is able to provide more overall force, but also moves the balance further forward. Which car are you talking about btw? And I assume is that understeering on throttle mid corner? I actually don't get much understeer as I find the rear is quick to rotate the car on power, and when braking, there is more than enough front grip to get the cars turned in. In specific instances of high speed, full throttle sustained turns (which is where I could see understeer occuring), I could imagine some understeer, but apparently they did actually have some highspeed understeer (massive rear wings). So maybe that is expected. Is it high speed turn-in where you're having trouble? Perhaps try the stiffer rear springs and a notch less rear wing for those specific corners and let me know if that helps. Possibly also, the 'point and shoot' type of driving synomymous with the non ground effect turbo era was perhaps the opposite to the ground effect cars, which your driving style is tuned to?
''Which car are you talking about btw? And I assume is that understeering on throttle mid corner?'' yeah exactly this especially if you hold the throttle on instead of lifting it since the same corner is flat with 1979 and 1982 cars and also can be done flat with 1970s f1 cars so it just takes me back that i cant take it flat on this. and the understeer is worst at the start of the corner and setuptweak make it somewhat manageable but still rather bad. Its a bit of both, its partly turn in, but it also means it overheats the front tire even on small turningangle and then the car just plows straight, if i lift the car manages the corner okay but it loses alot of time. I would usually gear the differential to cause oversteer on throttle and understeer when off throttle. It basically feels there is no weight on the front of the car. albeit it gets better when you reduce fuel on the car to around 60L from the full tank. but the big problem is that the terminal entry understeer burns up the front tires and then they are gone for a long time even if you use minimal turning angle. I usually tune my cars from neutral to just a tiny bit of understeer that can be changed with throttle application. so this means i can apply the throttle earlier and rotate car on the rear wheels to point forward, i do it with prettymuch all cars i drive. It's probably a byproduct that the groundeffect cars actually get more understeer if you go slower so by going faster you can negate understeer usually as long as its not a bias-ply tire since that will understeer at speed. The differential coast value helps a bit to it. but yeah the problem is that the front tires burn up even on slight turn if you get into corners like that. the car does infact become much more easier to throttle if you equalise the power and coast values on the diff since the car wont jolt as much. I think the coast value for mclaren might be far too low since compared to the 60 power and 10 coast its far too much understeer for the car even at half fuel. at full tank the understeer is terminal. I would probably run something like 80-50 on front and 50-40 on the rear. so the turbo jolt wont give a too much of a kick since the front and rear value should optimally be equal for even powerphaseswitch when the differential kicks. this would also tame the turbokick oversteer to manageable level. I'm testing on the mclaren and on stock setup and just did that change to it and it drove much better. i would probably add more frontwing to it potentially to lessen the understeer at speed even more.
Thank you. Yeh I would say I basically agree with your feedback entirely. The Mclaren with the default setup is not great at old Kyalami and turn 2 shows the understeer you're talking about. However setting the A rear wing and a few other minor tweaks sorted out the issue for me, and now the car corners like the '83 car in this vid... After watching that vid I I don't think that the '86 cars should quite be flat around that corner. Bearing in mind that they are going to be carrying a faster entry speed than '83 from turn 1, have more power to push through the corner, and not a huge amount more of downforce, I think it should be a half-throttle sort of corner, similar to the video. Kyalami is a high speed track and very aero dependent, and one where I would expect the user to tweak the setup to find gains. I suspect that a setup that worked very well at old Kyalami might not have the required rear end stability for slower tracks like Adelaide where you barely ever corner over 100mph and are constantly seeking rear end exit grip, and that nosey balance would make the car difficult to drive there and so not an ideal default setup, or maybe it would be I don't know. But the fact that the ideal setup for Kyalami is within the tuning parameters, I am ok with that. I agree on the Mclaren diff settings - I have overlooked that - thank you. I did find however that the Osella has one notch too much rear wing by default for my liking.
Thanks for another awesome update, love the Osella. Just a question how does the AI select the tyres? I thought RF2 always made the AI use the same compound unless it’s managed either in the upgrades etc for a car to lock a car on a specific compound. I’m using the 1986 track pack, but sometimes some cars use different tyre compounds - seems to be inconsistent. In Mexico for example Fabi is using c-soft on practice and Berger is using b-medium. Just trying to understand if there is a logic or a process that’s being used?
Thank you Buzz. I think that the ai tyre selection was part of the big ai update earlier this year. I'm not sure what the logic is but it's supposed to have a proper race strategy automatically generated (all done within rf2, not modders work). I haven't even tested the ai since that update. How did you find them in regards to pace and behaviour?
Didn't read previous posts but yesterday i drove the Bennetton and the McLaren and the cars are very well made. The driving is very dangerous but rewarding, just like those cars should be in real life, congratulations and thank you for your work that i hope keeps going with all the cars from 86 field! I can imagine how a championship with those cars might be - extremely fun and dramatical...
I think the 1986 car should have more downforce than 1983 car according to the data i was reading. according to the one datasheetpicture i have is that in 1983 they had 2000LB downforce at 150mph and 2400LB in 1986 but the car does have good 250-350hp more so it would gain the speed for the corner. albeit when you do that to a groundeffect car it would suck itself to the ground due to the speed generating alot of downforce. and normal winged cars really dont do that at all since downforce is usually fairly linear when groundeffect downforce is exponential. The cornering speed is exactly the same on both cars but the other one just goes so much better. but it did take until 1987-1988 for the cars to gain the same amount of downforce back so it might just be that. It's just something i noted. It's mostly this why its like that since groundeffectcar would suck itself down and make the corner a cakewalk to drive. And if i did exactly what you suggested as a small lift at entry it would mostly manage the corner almost flat on mediums. I think the problem is mostly caused just front tires easily overheating from small turning angle since it would feel that the front wheels dont have enough weight on them. the rears barely heat up when turning and most of the weight seems to be situated on the rearwheels. The inability to turn is mostly caused by the rather terminal understeer caused by that corner and front tires overheating from small turning angle. But i think if i spent like 1-2 days making a setup i could easily fix it so its not unfixable. It kinda reminds me of the 1988 ferrari i drove on a league. that needed a setup to only counteract the terrible understeer to make it driveable and the car is still fun to drive. probably just slighly off setup for the track as base. but usually the basesetups on prettymuch all cars are 2-5 seconds off the pace so its not like stuff like this does not happen. Still its a enjoyable car to drive and it is challenging to drive and if the data says the car was like that im perfectly fine with that. It's just something i noticed. If you want me to test drive it at somepoint and me telling what the car does while you watch. Another note is also that the tires that the other car has are about 20-25% worse so i dont think the tires would struggle that much on the car itself since even the qualifiers are that much off the 1986 mediums so the 1986 car is definately not lacking tiregrip at all based on the data it should have plenty of it but they give infinitely better handling. It's just that the car suffers from bad understeer at speed, the low speed handing is actually pretty good.
