Honda Civic BTCC v1.3 - Observations

see I told you the newer cars are heavier in regards to ffb. Hehehe

anyway both have a point. But spaskis has noted something I've felt in newer cars. Before I used to use caster to strengthen wheel turning forces as it felt to limp. On the usf onwards especially I haven't needed to. Even the gt500 felt heavier.

however I don't think its wrong I just think they have tried to cater for consumer wheels more on the newer tyre models. Or more than likely its just more of an accurate tyre model!

 

The newer cars don't have heavier ffb. Loki, as you seem to have ffb/steering issues across multiple titles please stop. Blanket statements like that spread misinformation which is rampant here. I'm genuinely trying to Help Spaskis and a handful of others see something that is hard to see if you do not want to see it but will seem so obvious once seen.

 

yes they do its obvious. Spaskis research prove it and your dumb cockpit view video proved absolutely nob all! Your the one misinformed pal


Are you associator in disguise btw? Sorry don't mean to go down this route but fed up with people on "these" forums telling me what I should or should not feel or that my wheel is broken without even seeing it, just to justify that they think their chosen sim as being 1000000% correct..

Jeez..

 

Spaskis's research proved that he is having a problem and has the data to prove said problem. What it does not prove is that there is a problem with the car, problem with rf2 or problem anywhere outside of the environment that test was performed. Just like your motec is not going to give you data from my vehicle. Does your speedometer tell you how fast I am going? I doubt it. I never said this or any other sim is 100000% correct. I can tell you, Loki, your specific problem is that you have setup your wheel incorrectly in more than one title and if you do not want any advice on that subject, why post complaints about it? I do understand that no one likes to find out that they are the reason something is not working, especially when the perceived problem has been going on for an extended period of time.

 

The Civic problem has been widely acknowledged and it's due to the summer update that introduced new medium tires, whereas the other compounds were not updated. Also I don't think you understood how SPASKIS does these tests. He simply measures what the FFB delivers at certain steering angles and compares the old and new versions. It doesn't even matter if his driving somehow is at fault as you claim, the point is that we can see the difference in FFB between the old and new version in his telemetry. That's all what is relevant, that there is a big difference in FFB from the updated tire compound. You are so far the only one I've seen who refutes this. I can feel the difference after driving two corners.

 

Stonec, read what I typed. I never blamed anyone's driving, not sure why you would say that I did. As for FFB at certain angles. Would that not make it imperative to have things setup correctly? If that is not setup correctly, the "steering angle" that is being tested is not the normal angle the tires would be. This works vice versa, some who read this data think it somehow explains things they are experiencing which may or may not be related. That creates another round of odd adjustments, threads on what needs fixing and more explanations like this instead of racing. This is why I initially asked to see cockpit video as that will explain a lot. It seemed cockpit video was enough evidence in a thread about notches, why can we not see the car turning?

 

You are talking without having any idea.
I didn't change any settings except for the tires in the tests. The results are coming from the physics and not from any problem that I have. I was indeed using keyboard in order to avoid any possible interference with my driving or wheel.

Maybe if you checked your telemetry you would realize that the same results apply for you.

Furthermore, I made my analysis after several complaints from other people regarding those tires.

 

You do not think the telemetry with the keyboard is different than with a wheel? You do not think rF2 and/or the wheel's profiler (or brand equivalent) would cause rF2 to steer differently with a wheel than with a keyboard? You do not think the proper angle of rotation with a keyboard is different than with a wheel?

 

Guys ...

the detailed and very professional tests done by guys like spaskis are great but ... is not it to S397 to bring a brightening after 6 months frankly? Do not take your head.

Let's wait for an answer in the coming days of S397, hoping that they answer.

 

You still didn't get the point. He did with keyboard so he could replicate the experiment precisely. With "proper steering", you cannot twice replicate conditions identically, so how would he compare the two compounds then? The only way to get repeatable results is with keyboard that always gives either 0 or 1 input. It's all about showing that the medium tire produces radically different FFB for no reason, it's not about steering or driving styles.

 

As long as the input (no sensitivities) and the FFB multiplier (smooth and min torque) are the same you will get the same output.

In any case in the following days I will redo the tests with keyboard and wheel. Too bad that I don't have an xbox controller as well

 

Did you compare Soft, Medium and Hard tires back to back on track? Did you know tire deltas on lap time? Did you race with other people? If you drive just medium it ok, but this compound produces way too different feedback and lap times compare with two other slick compounds. It's main problem. You can't be competitive on Medium tires comparing to Soft and Hard.

 

What I recall about the Civic's medium tire is the ffb felt reversed. Probably similar to how some have described the AMG GT3. For instance at Atlanta Motorsport Park, there is a long left hand sweeper before the final right hand turn. The steering, one would think, should provide more resistance as the corner was negotiated, but instead it felt lighter. But I don't have a high end wheel, just a G25 so that may be part of it.

 

Small offtopic :
I have tested yesterday the amg gt3 S397 and as all gt3 from S397 : the FFB (physics) are exceptionnal, compared to the camaro gt3 or other good ISI cars. Don't see any promblem with the amg.

Concerning the civic, I test the SOFT tyres : FFB is pretty great, not enough strong, temperatures of the front tyres were great. To wait 6 month, I will use the soft tyres.

EDIT :
T500 rs

 

As someone mentioned, medium tires are not only different but a lot slower.
In my test track I get 23,2s for Both 23,7s for Hard and 25,2s for the Medium "buggy" tire.
The FFB feels quite stronger.

Studio397 has not clarified anything yet.

 

I made a second test to see how pressure affected both tires.

Medium tires would gain grip with lowest pressures and lose at highest (vs default).
FFB level is indeed affected but not in the logical way: highest pressure provides a higher FFB.
This overall behaviour is not fully consistent with reality. If lower pressures provides lower FFB in reality please let me know. I am granting it for sure based on my own experience.

Soft tires would show same grip with lowest pressures and highest presuures.
FFB level is unaffected by pressure.
This overall behaviour is unconsistent with reality.

So the good news is that new tire model seems to behave better in terms of influence of pressure to contact patch. IMO a greater contact patch should also provide a bigger FFB but is doesn't. These needs to be studied and addressed if as I say is incorrect.
However the poor grip values of these medium tires suggest revisiting grip levels

Medium Tires. Black Lowest pressure. Red Highest pressure.


Soft Tires. Red Lowest pressure. Black Highest pressure

 

I made an important correction on the post above. I have marked high and low pressures with different colours in both tires and I messed up the conclusions by incorrectly saying that medium tires were performing good in terms of FFB vs pressure effect.

 

@SPASKIS ,Is the problem with the medium tire fixed?

 

So did @Christopher Elliott confirm.
I haven't checked myself.

 

I tried quickly : it seems to have more feeling.