Honda Civic BTCC v1.3 - Observations

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jayarrbee36, May 11, 2017.

  1. jayarrbee36

    jayarrbee36 Registered

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    I'm aware there was already some discussion of the recent update to this car elsewhere. I didn't want to clutter the general DX11/Content threads but did want to share my observations after a couple of hours testing at Silverstone National.

    So I'd read the complaints about FFB and handling with the latest version of the Civic before starting and once I got going it was easy to see what people have been talking about. Heavy FFB and very poor handling. However, this was with no changes to the default setup. On changing from the default Medium tyre to the Soft tyre (no other changes) the car was absolutely transformed.

    With the Medium tyre I had oversteer on initial turn-in, then extreme understeer mid-corner and at exit. My absolute fastest lap was 60.958s, no match for the AI on 100% strength. And that time was set driving in full attack mode, completely unsustainable for a race since the understeer is so bad the front tyres overheat drastically in no time. When driving in a sensible race mode my best was 61.598s.

    On the Soft tyre the car handles beautifully, the FFB feel is much better, and lap times are hugely faster. My best was 58.820s, with an easily sustainable race pace in the low 59s, dipping into the 58s if need be. The lack of understeer also means the fronts don't overheat. This makes the Soft tyre the only possible choice for a race, since the Medium is too slow and can only last a few laps before all performance is lost to overheating.

    In short, on Medium tyres the car is diabolical. On Soft tyres it's the same good-handling, barrel of fun I knew and loved before the update. The problem is, before v1.3 the Medium tyre was perfectly usable.
    So, what's happened? Is the default setup different, does it need changes to make the Medium tyre work? Has something gone wrong in prepping the update?

    If anyone has any luck finding a good setup with the Medium tyre I'd love to know. And if anyone has any other thoughts, please share.
     
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  2. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Thanks for the input. I'll give the Civ another look tonight. You are correct about lack of setups. I have not been concentrating on the car but rather how it performs in the new graphic environment. So every car I've tested has been on default setups. Now I'll second his request for somebody to post a nice handling setup for the Civic.
    I'll confirm Jay's findings. With the soft tire the Civic is providing the ffb responses I expect. The weirdness feeling I was experiencing with the Medium tire is gone. Good Catch!
    Perhaps the S397 car guy can take a look at the two compound and see if anything is amiss with the medium tire.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
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  3. jayarrbee36

    jayarrbee36 Registered

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    Thanks for your input, Dave. Good to get some confirmation of my findings.

    Hopefully S397 can check the Medium tyre as something really does seem amiss. IIRC the Civic's tyres don't have the latest CPM, if so they will need more attention at some point anyway.
     
  4. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    This car doesn't understeer for me,say I'm in a right hand turn,I'm going way to fast to make the apex,but if I press the throttle,with the wheel turned to the right say 30degs,the car goes into to god mode and turns extremely right,if I go full throttle,the steering wheel will turn all the way to the right,full lock,and I can't counter that.

    It's weird,jimmy posted a video test in the civic,and al was fine,so I think there's a conflict between this cars physics and ffb,and my t300/pc.

    It's just the exact opposite of what happens in rl
     
  5. Jyyka Pihtari

    Jyyka Pihtari Registered

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    It's called torque steer.
     
  6. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Are these cars supposed to have 99% grille tape? Was 0% before their update.
     
  7. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    haven't been well last few days but tonight gonna give the civic a good go on my t300. ill report my findings.. as said elsewhere the fwd ffb does feel foreign compared to other cars thats a good thing, i think it could be the intensity of it. In jimmy's vid he noted that he was using 1.4 ffb multiplier! wow. Anyone know what wheel he's got? is it a GTE rim?
     
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  8. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Nope
     
  9. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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  10. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Driving the Honda in DX9, I don't feel any difference between soft & medium compounds other than the lower grip of medium. Can easily cook both tire compounds if I'm injudicious.
     
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  11. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Something about this cars ffb feels alien.. It still does feel like on/off ffb signal. It need more overall friction so when the wheel snaps its not 10% signal to 100%! It does feel great mostly. but something about it.
     
  12. ucfquattroguy

    ucfquattroguy Registered

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    Medium tire is definitely a dud. I found a difference of about 3 seconds at Toban short last night. 60.7 vs 63.7. It's quite significant. The grip difference definitely changes how the car acts and what you're able to do with the front end. That difference in grip is also enough to produce slightly different FFB (to be expected).
     
  13. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I don't think it is the grip itself causing the difference in FFB. Each tire has the tgm file where tire deformations and loads at the contact patch are stored.

    If there is such a difference with the tires which gets to affect FFB I would expect something more than a simpler change in friction coefficient.

    I would suggest testing modifying medium tires accordingly:
    - use soft tire tgm as the base
    - override friction, wear and thermal parameters using original medium tires values.

    The idea would be to check if there is an issue with pneumatic trail calculation in medium tires.
     
  14. Jyyka Pihtari

    Jyyka Pihtari Registered

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    Yup.
     
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  15. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    pacepalm
     
  16. Jyyka Pihtari

    Jyyka Pihtari Registered

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    ..and if one knows what one is doing, it is quite easy to tune out excessive torque steer and general twitchiness.
     
  17. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    Just for comparison I jumped into racerooms wttc cars. And I must admit the have the same light to strong ffb in their cars. Although there is more canned effects to fill the gaps. Like engine vib, gear changes etc ect.

    I was still impressed how the ffb was Compared to rf2....good effort from s3 on those fwd cars !
     
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  18. Zoaal

    Zoaal Registered

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    I reduced "Steering torque capability" from 5 to 2.5 in the controler.json and the "torque steer" perception returned to normal.

    T500Rs here.
     
  19. LokiD

    LokiD Registered

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    did it ruin other cars?
     
  20. Zoaal

    Zoaal Registered

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    No, just the Civic. The sensation was of a reversed FFB, and the effect was very, very intense.
     

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