Dallara DW12 Indy car v1.63 (newly updated) Now Available

Yeah, linearity is maintained, which I personally prefer rather than some fake response curve. Of course if you compare relative forces, NSX should have less, but since it has less range, that means it's closer to 100% (clipping point) most of the time. If you have the range available, why not use it? Other option I guess would be to only output 30% of max force to the steering wheel with NSX, but that would surely leave a lot of people confused as well.

 

Yeah, to be honest I've left everything on default also. I made an assumption about this setting but it seems there will be no benefit with your wheel.
Steering Torque Capability

Fanatec GT2, F2 feels great, Indy feels great all out of the box, in fact the NSX is the car I dislike the most due to my perceived lack of fidelity through my wheel.
In both the cars the force is consistent through the speed ranges, so as an example, exiting the garage at Indy, the wheel is very heavy, almost overly so for a toy. At full speed the force and fidelity is as close to perfect as I've experienced.

I match the rotation degrees on the wheel(sensitivity), add a little deadzone and use the highest drift mode. FF and shock at %100 all other effects off and everything else at default.

 

So the link you provided suggests that for a wheel like the T500 or any normal available wheel, the Steering Torque Capability setting will do nothing. I am not sure what Nm a CSW puts out, but I doubt it is so high as Tuttle is referring. So this setting can be ignored, then.

So the mystery is how does your Indy car and F2 feel heavy right out of the garage and mine feels like almost nothing when we are using almost the same settings and almost the same wheel? One clue is that I would never use Drift or any other non-linear settings on my wheel. I sure hope that's not what is giving you low-speed weight in the wheel! Maybe we can PM and share more detailed settings. There must be something out of whack at my end that only affects these two cars. Wish I knew what it was.

 

i dont think anythings out of whack marc. i tried the F2 recently for the first time & was shocked at how light it was. i use a g27 but in relative terms i dont think there should be significant difference.

and as i said i initially doubled the force on the dw12; tbh i tried it earlier today assuming those settings had stuck & found it was at default; it actually felt ok but a bit light.

im not sure if its typical for fanatec to be set to 100%? for ex i know a t500 is generally at 60-70%. and i have no idea what 'drift mode' is but that does sound like something that might artificially increase forces a great deal; ive accidentally DLed some drift mod cars for AC & they all clip horrifically by default.

 

Have you adjusted the caster on the DW-12? If not, try changing it from 6 to 9 degrees and see if you also get night and day FFB on the G27 from just that one change.

And as mentioned, 90% of the cars feel wonderful at 100%, multiplier at 1.0, all default settings.

 

A little suggestion. The DW12's steering torque was set to not clip on a 300km/h perfectly smooth corner. Most tracks do not have 300km/h corners (that are right on the limit), so the loads are lesser, and you may feel the torque is too low. Perhaps this was a slight oversight, and for most tracks you might be happier with a FFB multiplier of 1.2-1.3. Just be aware at very high speeds or otherwise extreme loads, the FFB might clip (like over bumps, etc).

 

I am also interested to hear from those who think that FFB should not be weighted according to the real car (i.e., a DW-12 should have the same maximum force and weight to a power steering road car NSX), does this also apply to audio? Every car engine should have the same maximum volume even though the real cars vary dramatically?

 

Thanks--that makes sense, but does suggest a speed-based FFB algorithm may be needed if the other FFB philosophy discussed above is not going to change. The combination of extreme high speeds and needing to accurately simulate bumps at those speeds with the extreme forces and steering weight of this car compared to most others is leading to a loss of fidelity for 99% of road course driving. Or maybe an oval-specific FFB is needed?

Or maybe an oval caster of 6 degrees and road course of 9, but I am still suspicious that 3 degrees of caster would actually make this much difference. Do you have any insight into that?

And lastly, any idea why some people get much heavier FFB in the F2 and this car while others get very (artificially) light? It's a frustrating mystery to me!

 

Im having a slight problem. I dont know if its track or car related, but when I select dw12 (1.63) and Nurburgring, it forces every car (including mine) into the indy config, not road course. I cant set up the car, because left side wont go negative camber.

 

Without discussing too many details of the car, the mechanical trail is very low in this car on 6 degrees of caster, probably for the sake of the drivers who would find it to be extremely heavy otherwise. @ 9 degrees it increases by ~15mm, which in this car is significant, but actually brings it more in-line with what other cars may have (cars with power steering or lighter / lower downforce). Future tyre model updates *may* bridge the gap just slightly, but we don't expect massive differences. In any case, I think we'll definitely separate the short course, road course, oval and Indianapolis multipliers to hopefully give a better experience to the majority of people, for the next release, along with several other planned updates.

 

"Have you adjusted the caster on the DW-12? If not, try changing it from 6 to 9 degrees and see if you also get night and day FFB on the G27 from just that one change."

yes in fact ive only bumped the caster to 8 & it made a huge difference. w/ a g27 i find the open wheel cars in general, at least the modern ones, tend to feel too light at low speed. pretty sure i bump up the FR 3.5 quite a bit too. that was the newest car in rf2 at the time i got it & i actually asked on the forum to confirm my settings werent messed up it felt so light. but it was nothing compared to the F2 which i only drove for the first time recently.

in AC & SCE i notice this same kindve behavior w/ modern formula cars; if i want them to feel what i consider 'solid' at low speed w/ a wheel as weak as a g27 i would need to set them up so theyd clip pretty badly on fast corners.

i cant add any info as to why this is that hasnt been said, but i would agree w/ michael that the dw12 at least seems to be set up very conservatively (light to avoid clipping) compared to some other cars. the ffb seems tuned for ovals & not road courses.

 

I'm not sure of the origins, but it was introduced as method to reduce dampening. Coming from a G27, steering with the Fanatec was like walking with cement boots and I quickly found this setting helped massively. It just makes the wheel feel more free, more alive.

Marc, I'm going to double check everything and send you a pm.

 

Opened an internal discussion again about FFB linearity defaults.

 

Marc, have you already set steering torque minimum? That should help with low speed forces.

 

It will. We probably need to think about where we have that by default.

 

Tim, if I may;

Why is it that with this car, my wheel (G27) "bangs" a lot more violently? I mean for instance a bump in the road; normally it moves the wheel and that could be pretty hard, but now it just goes "clack" in the wheel, giving a nasty impression of......well, the wheel would break you know?
Old version doesn't do this and most cars don't.
It Always have been present in the modern day F2 car; I almost can't drive that one without the torque set to 0,3 and smooting to 30. But at that point; I loose all the feeling.

I don't think it has to do with "all the above", but I wanted to ask. Force is lower on this one, but the "clacks" are more.

 

Not sure if I feel the same thing as Navigator, but at least one thing I like better in AC over rf2 is ffb going over kerbs. Rf2 feels mostly too rough in this area. But now that I come to think about it, it may be car depentant because sometimes it feels good also in rf2. If I remember correctly then EGT for example don't have this "problem". But at least Indy 1.63 at Indy road track 2014 had this "roughness" going over kerbs. I'm not using smoothing.

 

Same problem here, let's say your audio system may have 40 dB dynamic range (90 dB max sound, 50 dB min sound you can hear against background noise). 3 dB meaning a doubling of sound pressure.

You can reproduce a Clio with 30 dB dynamic range without compressing it's dynamic range, you can still have a problems reproducing the real level of noise of the car if it is of 95 dB in real life because your system is limited to 90 dB.

Take a V12 Ferrari F1, and let's say it's dynamic range is 50 dB and max sound level in real life is 100 dB. You will clip it's max sounds level at 90 Db, thus reducing it's dynamic range, or choose to compress the whole dynamic range of the sound you want to reproduce (lowering the louder sounds and increasing the quieter ones).

This means you can end having a Clio sounding as loud as a V12 Ferrari F1 on your system, to avoid that, you can reduce the sound level of the Clio or choose to play with the Clio sounding close to real.

For my ears I welcome the fact that my system cannot reproduce the max pressure of F1 V12 Ferrari (should play with ear plugs).

Cheers.

P.S.

I have no opinion of the new Dw12 or Cobra, I haven't driven them yet, may be in two weeks time I may try them.

 

...And probably the whole block where you live.....
I think this discussion about relation from car to car is a bit silly. Our hardware for the most part, can't reproduce reality, but to be able to enjoy our experience, the output the simulator give is obviously relative. If someone have stronger devices, then he can reproduce reality accordingly, this just need to modify few values in a controller file. Otherwise one could just modify FFB multyplier for each car. I don't think this is a problem, this solution fit most customers, and those that does not fit can easily make it fit with some simple modifications.
The thing about the audio is the silliest of all, as all audio devices have a Volume control, if your audio device is strong enough to crank 120 DB, you just need to crank it up. What is the problem?

 

I love this IndyCar so far! Like some, i bumped up the caster from 6.0 to 7.5 or 8.0 and raised the front wing a little, that aside, running default setup so far at Indianapolis Road Course 2014

I love the feeling of "danger" , like your in control, and out of control at the same time. The tires appear to give very light lockups a lot easier then with the old ties which really forces you to be quite high in concentration every single lap. To people who struggle, or feel the car is "wrong" out of the box, give the thing 3-4-5 laps to get up to temperature, you cant just floor this thing out of the pit lane!

Anyway, thanks ISI for another tremendous release!!!