I noticed that ISI has moved the "gear" file into the HDV DRIVELINE section, but I wasn't able to find an appropriate documentation on "how to". Can someone help me in understanding the procedure? Many thanks in advance!
Would you take guesses too? I just try.. Taken from the NSX: Gear1Range=(0,0,1) Gear1Special=(0,,,"1000,3071") Gear1Setting=0 i would say: As Ratio setting you use Gear1Special=(0,,,"1000,3071") To have more than 1 Ratio-Option i would say you can add lines like Gear1Special=(1,... Gear1Special=(2,... Gear1Special=(3,... .... As presetting you can take Gear1Setting= [first value of the GearXSpecial=] or eventually Gear1Range=([first value of the GearXSpecial=],... and as numbers of available options, the last value of the Gear1Range=(0,0,1) Same for the Reverse gear and for the FinalDrive, the final drive has 2 more values after the ratio values, FinalDriveSpecial=(0,,,"17,72,10,10"), where i would say that this is the old "bevel".
Good Luck One thing i've forgotten to write: it seems as if the first value of the gear-ratios always have to be 1000.
... tried it out too and it works as expected. The presetting is done by the GearXSetting=X value. From the GearXRange=(X,Y,Z) line only the 3rd value is needed for the number of available ratio-options. Same for FinalDrive and Reverse.
thanks!!! Now I'm assembling a beta version for testing shadows, showroom structure, tgm etc... As I finished, I'll try to "move" gear ratios to the hdv file. Many thanks again!
Because my private Testcar has an original Finaldrive-ratio of 4.44:1, so i tried to use more than 2 digits for the Finaldrive ratio values, as it is used for the gears too. And it seems to work with 3 and 4 digits too. So i can use "FinalDriveSpecial=(3,,,"1000,4440,10,10")" as presetting for the default/original ratio now.
I'm not so expert to understand how the magical numbers work, lol I've seen there are 2 different ways for setting gears: I mean numbers that are the ratio (? not sure it is the right word in English) and they are written without dot like 1000,2850 and the "old" numbers like 24,38). I'm sure the result is the same. The bevel are the second group of 2 number. Is it correct? Other "syntax" is easy... i.e.: Gear2Range=(0,3,8) means we have 8 combinations for the second gear and by default we set the #3 (that is the forth line... 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 = line 1, etc...) i.e.: Gear2Setting=1 means it can be set. Gear2Setting=0 means it is fixed by default In bold data aren't known: FinalDriveSpecial=(0,,,"10,38,1,1") Gear1Special=(0,,,"12,48") 4 fields where the first one needs to identify the line for that gear, but other not used fields ??????... and Gear2Range=(0,3,8) first value is always zero ???????... EDIT: I forgot to say that on the contrary something in my thinking is wrong, because I find few gear ratios "shifted" up or down of what expected. I need to make more tests to better understand, lol
Here is what i've set for my car (should normally help you to understand better ): Code: FinalDriveRange=(0,0,5) FinalDriveSpecial=(0,,,"1000,3900,10,10") FinalDriveSpecial=(1,,,"1000,4100,10,10") FinalDriveSpecial=(2,,,"1000,4300,10,10") FinalDriveSpecial=(3,,,"1000,4440,10,10") FinalDriveSpecial=(4,,,"1000,4700,10,10") FinalDriveSetting=3 ReverseRange=(0,0,1) ReverseSpecial=(0,,,"1000,2190") ReverseSetting=0 ForwardGears=6 Gear1Range=(0,0,8) Gear1Special=(0,,,"1000,3800") Gear1Special=(1,,,"1000,3700") Gear1Special=(2,,,"1000,3600") Gear1Special=(3,,,"1000,3500") Gear1Special=(4,,,"1000,3400") Gear1Special=(5,,,"1000,3300") Gear1Special=(6,,,"1000,3200") Gear1Special=(7,,,"1000,3100") Gear1Setting=6 Gear2Range=(0,0,8) Gear2Special=(0,,,"1000,2410") Gear2Special=(1,,,"1000,2320") Gear2Special=(2,,,"1000,2230") Gear2Special=(3,,,"1000,2140") Gear2Special=(4,,,"1000,2050") Gear2Special=(5,,,"1000,1960") Gear2Special=(6,,,"1000,1870") Gear2Special=(7,,,"1000,1780") Gear2Setting=6 Gear3Range=(0,0,8) Gear3Special=(0,,,"1000,1840") Gear3Special=(1,,,"1000,1760") Gear3Special=(2,,,"1000,1680") Gear3Special=(3,,,"1000,1600") Gear3Special=(4,,,"1000,1520") Gear3Special=(5,,,"1000,1440") Gear3Special=(6,,,"1000,1360") Gear3Special=(7,,,"1000,1280") Gear3Setting=6 Gear4Range=(0,0,8) Gear4Special=(0,,,"1000,1490") Gear4Special=(1,,,"1000,1420") Gear4Special=(2,,,"1000,1350") Gear4Special=(3,,,"1000,1280") Gear4Special=(4,,,"1000,1210") Gear4Special=(5,,,"1000,1140") Gear4Special=(6,,,"1000,1070") Gear4Special=(7,,,"1000,1000") Gear4Setting=6 Gear5Range=(0,0,8) Gear5Special=(0,,,"1000,1260") Gear5Special=(1,,,"1000,1200") Gear5Special=(2,,,"1000,1140") Gear5Special=(3,,,"1000,1080") Gear5Special=(4,,,"1000,1020") Gear5Special=(5,,,"1000,960") Gear5Special=(6,,,"1000,900") Gear5Special=(7,,,"1000,840") Gear5Setting=6 Gear6Range=(0,0,8) Gear6Special=(0,,,"1000,1050") Gear6Special=(1,,,"1000,1000") Gear6Special=(2,,,"1000,950") Gear6Special=(3,,,"1000,900") Gear6Special=(4,,,"1000,850") Gear6Special=(5,,,"1000,800") Gear6Special=(6,,,"1000,750") Gear6Special=(7,,,"1000,700") Gear6Setting=6 EDIT To answer the questions. Yes. Yes, 8 combinations-setting is right, but default 3 is wrong, you only need the last value, the first and second are 0. No, Gear2Setting=1 means that you use the ...special=(1 as presetted gear. To fix the gear, you have to set e.g. Gear2Range=(0,0,1) Maybe the other, not used fields get a meaning later. But now it works without them. Yes and second value too.
FWIW the difference between using numbers such as (1000, 1174) or (23, 27) is really determination/drive of the modder. Often in literature you will see the rounded values out to 3 decimals. These values are determined by gear tooth count, which is what 23 and 27 are. Because of the rounding from certain combinations resulting in repeating numbers I'd say that using proper tooth counts is best, that is if the modder has the determination to track down that data. Trying to stuff a drop ratio gear box into something with 1:1 bevel is a bit of a nightmare, it can only be properly done with gear tooth counts.
At first can you please tell me what FWIW means? And i wouldn't completely agree to that: When you e.g. have a given gear ratio from a manufacturers datasheet of "1.87", it is impossible to represent it with 2 values of just 2 digits. You can take 30/56 or 40/75 but 1000/1870 simply matches it exactly.
I know this is slightly Off-Topic, and not really all that important but they do not manufacture transmission gear sets with 1000's of teeth, therefore while the math works out it is inherently incorrect. Or at least that is how I view it. Dig further, find photos and workshop manuals, count teeth was the approach I used. Which manufacturer, car? In the past I was looking at something (don't remember what it was at the moment) and it had crazy ratios I couldn't match with whole numbers, turned out it was using a drop gear and the manufacturer was adjusting the literature. Edit: Was tired of watching commercials during the 1st intermission so I went in search of 1.870. Most likely it is 23,43 and rounded from 1.86956521739
Yes, it's out of topic a little bit, but "why not". You are right, there are no 1000's teeth sets in cars. But because i only have found the math values of the ratios and not the exact count of teeths for each gear pair, for me it's more exact to be able to use 4 digits instead of 2. And how can i know if the given value has been rounded up or down? Sorry, it's a little bit hard to explain for me because of restricted english knowledge. By the way, the ratios are from the Porsche Carrera GT, where i got these values from a Porsche datasheet: Gear Ratios 1 3.2 2 1.87 3 1.36 4 1.07 5 0.9 6 0.75 R 2.19 Final Drive Ratio 4.44
I'm ready to come back to the topic, lol! The truth? I think your discussion and info are very relevant. I tried several different approaches to have the gears working into the hdv file but without success. And I'm not able to understand where I'm making the mistake. The syntax is almost easy, at least for values we know, but the main problem is: IF I set the "GearxSetting" to 0 or 1 or 2 the whole gears work, if I use an higher value (and I need to use it to set the appropriate ratio for each gear) the whole system collapses (the 2nd or 3rd gear get the value of the 5th gear... and/or no gears appear, etc...) It seems like ratios of contiguous gears cannot be too much close each other, but the same values work perfectly in the mod using the "old" way. I attach the original data and same data for the HDV file, that can be tested to show what I'm trying to explain. Original data from ini file: Code: // [GEAR_RATIOS] //First gears ratio=(12,48) //3.8 ratio=(14,47) //3.0 //Second gears ratio=(16,46) //2.158 ratio=(16,45) //2.079 ratio=(17,45) //2.00 ratio=(17,44) //1.952 ratio=(18,44) //1.905 ratio=(18,43) //1.875 ratio=(19,43) //1.845 ratio=(19,42) //1.809 //Third gears ratio=(20,42) //1.773 ratio=(20,41) //1.762 ratio=(21,41) //1.682 ratio=(21,40) //1.650 ratio=(22,40) //1.619 ratio=(22,39) //1.589 ratio=(23,39) //1.560 ratio=(23,38) //1.531 //Fourth gears ratio=(24,38) //1.502 ratio=(24,37) //1.470 ratio=(25,37) //1.440 ratio=(25,36) //1.400 ratio=(26,36) //1.365 ratio=(26,35) //1.336 ratio=(27,35) //1.308 ratio=(27,34) //1.279 //Fifth gears ratio=(28,34) //1.251 ratio=(28,33) //1.210 ratio=(29,33) //1.183 ratio=(29,32) //1.153 ratio=(30,32) //1.123 ratio=(30,31) //1.082 ratio=(31,31) //1.044 ratio=(31,30) //1.000 [FINAL_DRIVE] bevel=(1,1) //1.00 ratio=(10,38) //2.4 ratio=(10,36) //?? ratio=(10,33) //?? New syntax integrated into the HDV file that matches the above data, but doesn't work! Code: ForwardGears=5 FinalDriveRange=(0,0,3) FinalDriveSpecial=(0,,,"10,38,1,1") FinalDriveSpecial=(1,,,"10,36,1,1") FinalDriveSpecial=(2,,,"10,33,1,1") FinalDriveSetting=1 ReverseRange=(0,0,1) ReverseSpecial=(0,,,"12,48") // 3.080 ReverseSetting=0 Gear1Range=(0,0,2) Gear1Special=(0,,,"12,48") // 3.080 Gear1Special=(1,,,"14,47") // 3.000 Gear1Setting=0 Gear2Range=(0,0,8) Gear2Special=(0,,,"16,46") // 2.158 Gear2Special=(1,,,"16,45") // 2.079 Gear2Special=(2,,,"17,45") // 2.000 Gear2Special=(3,,,"17,44") // 1.952 Gear2Special=(4,,,"18,44") // 1.905 Gear2Special=(5,,,"18,43") // 1.875 Gear2Special=(6,,,"19,43") // 1.845 Gear2Special=(7,,,"19,42") // 1.809 Gear2Setting=3 Gear3Range=(0,0,8) Gear3Special=(0,,,"20,42") // 1.773 Gear3Special=(1,,,"20,41") // 1.762 Gear3Special=(2,,,"21,41") // 1.682 Gear2Special=(3,,,"21,40") // 1.650 Gear2Special=(4,,,"22,40") // 1.619 Gear2Special=(5,,,"22,39") // 1.589 Gear2Special=(6,,,"23,39") // 1.560 Gear2Special=(7,,,"23,38") // 1.531 Gear3Setting=3 Gear4Range=(0,0,8) Gear4Special=(0,,,"24,38") // 1.502 Gear4Special=(1,,,"24,37") // 1.470 Gear3Special=(2,,,"25,37") // 1.440 Gear2Special=(3,,,"25,36") // 1.400 Gear2Special=(4,,,"26,36") // 1.365 Gear2Special=(5,,,"26,35") // 1.336 Gear2Special=(6,,,"27,35") // 1.308 Gear2Special=(7,,,"27,34") // 1.279 Gear4Setting=2 Gear5Range=(0,0,8) Gear5Special=(0,,,"28,34") // 1.251 Gear5Special=(1,,,"28,33") // 1.210 Gear3Special=(2,,,"29,33") // 1.183 Gear2Special=(3,,,"29,32") // 1.153 Gear2Special=(4,,,"30,32") // 1.123 Gear2Special=(5,,,"30,31") // 1.082 Gear2Special=(6,,,"31,31") // 1.044 Gear2Special=(7,,,"31,30") // 1.000 Gear5Setting=0 If you have time to perform some tests, please try to decrease the value of GearxSetting for 2nd and 3rd and the gear will work... Thanks!
I'm not at home now, so i can't test it. Did you try with the 4 digit settings? E.g.: Gear1Special=(0,,,"1000,3080") // 3.080 Gear1Special=(1,,,"1000,3000") // 3.000 instead of: Gear1Special=(0,,,"12,48") // 3.080 Gear1Special=(1,,,"14,47") // 3.000 And did you try my whole entry-set (which works here)? EDIT just seen, you messed up the entries: Gear5Range=(0,0,8) Gear5Special=(0,,,"28,34") // 1.251 Gear5Special=(1,,,"28,33") // 1.210 Gear3Special=(2,,,"29,33") // 1.183 Gear2Special=(3,,,"29,32") // 1.153 Gear2Special=(4,,,"30,32") // 1.123 Gear2Special=(5,,,"30,31") // 1.082 Gear2Special=(6,,,"31,31") // 1.044 Gear2Special=(7,,,"31,30") // 1.000 Gear5Setting=0 All Special entries have to begin with Gear5Special, same with the 4th and 3th gear sets.
Generally if you are rounding to 0.XXXX and the 5th place is 5 or higher you round up, as in 0.XXXX5, anything lower rounds down. G80 manufactured by Hör. Be careful with Porsche mfg info, especially in that era is known to be a little wonky here and there (read as: not always 100% accurate). Nothing shown specifically in PET for the gears, but the pdf I have shows a nice illustration. Layout goes engine, through clutch to input shaft (power), to a bevel gear, which drives layshaft, which drives output shaft, which drives an intermediate final drive (drop gear), which then finally turns the axle shafts by way of final drive. https://photos.stuttcars.info/upload/2013/02/10/carrera-gt-86-copyright-porsche.jpg Dug through some stuff, 2nd is indeed 23:43, 3rd is 25:34, 4th is 28:30, the big gear on the axle shaft has a count of 58, the big gear on the intermediate final drive has a count of 40, one of the reverse gears is 31, I think the reverse idler is 15.
I've got my info from THIS site. Unfortunately i couldn't find something like THIS for the Carrera GT. And maybe you are right that it's not very accurate, because when i set all given values in rF2 (tire-dimensions in the *.tbc file are set correctly too), i, in the garage-menue, get a shown max speed of ~ 310 Km/h. But it should reach 330 Km/h +. Can be rF2 related or because of inaccurate values, i don't know. And to the rounding, i know how rounding is done , what i meant is, that when i have a given value of e.g. 1.87, i can not know if it e.g. comes from 1.8689 or 1.8743, makes not a big difference, but makes one, especially if the 1.87 are not accurate . The picture you've posted is from Carrera GT, did i get that right?
