A good analysis of grip: rFactor 2 vs iRacing.

Thank you, Matt Sentell and Spinelli for your posts.

I don't have real life experience, but your posts pretty much reflect what I feel about simulators.

That's why we have so many mixed feelings about cars in rF2. Some people say car feels very natural and is well balanced, while other people will call the same car undrivable. The answer is always in your driving style. Either you toss the car around, see what happens and try to react, or you progress slowly, understand the car and adjust your driving line to get the most of it without upsetting it.

Since, as you say, we don't feel much of the g-forces in simulators, the second approach is a win in our case.

True, but at this moment rF2 is still fresh and modders haven't mastered it yet. We have new road surface technology and people will have to learn how to set it up properly. At the moment you should assume ISI tracks will have proper grip, while modders will have to learn from these tracks.

Just like it has always been in rFactor - someone within community will have to learn stuff, then publish a tutorial to pass his knowledge onto others.

 

I tried to depict the magnitude of the effect of the engine ISI and other simulators. Why in other simulators cars felt more predictable and transitions between them do not require adaptation.
The core principle of the physical model in rf1-2, it is working on another, and their adaptation leads to bigger issues.
It is clear that no one can alter the engine which is more than 10 years. Though what that modules are copied. But the principle of operation was not changed.

 

Did you have another image ? It's intresting but i can't read it well. If it is what i think, it would explain some of the odd dynamics in rF2.

 

Did you click on it?

 

Yes but with a smartphone. May i should check it with the PC.

 

That or click and then pinch to zoom? If you can't do that in the browser then try downloading the image (by holding your finger on the picture till a save feature pops up perhaps?) into your photo library and you must be able to pinch to zoom in there.

 

That image have no sense...

 

Dmitry, that is utter nonsense... I guess this is another iceRacing fan thread...

 

Dmitry, what do you mean by 'exposure to'?

 

Ok i will try that, thx.

Is anybody able to explain the image more professionell in relation to sim physics and logics behind ?

 

Grip of the tires, it's leash balancing dynamics. I wanted to show that the effect on tire grip, approx. iR in this clutch can be increased, the fact that it affects the cohesion of the forces and how these forces are distributed.

 

can be clearly demonstrated by the dynamics Unitu3D but I do not own programming. Create two fundamentally different engine. basics

 

Ok thx. I tought something like that but i can't read it well atm.

So where does it come from. Is it your personal interpretation of things or is this a fact ?

Apart from that i don't know how things in sims work, i would say rF2 has a weight distribution, drag, static weight and heating up tire surface issue, while its more present on drive axle of RWD cars.

Not sure if some of the tire behaviour is because of wrong drag values because of weight distribution.

 

Unfortunately that image makes no sense to me. And it should, since I do know a thing or two about physics and physics programming.

If rF1 / rF2 would really have such a big flaw as to reverse force application point and center of mass, I think we would ALL have noticed by now

Image looks like prepared by person who has no insights into physics engine in rF1 / rF2, so I wouldn't bother.

 

Obviously you have zero idea how the physics of rfactor works, so please stop with the misinformation, Dmitry.

 

O dear!
I don´t know if I should cry or laugh...
This thread is REALLY weird. The worst ever I think.

 

Actually, it started out pretty well I really like to read what real-life drivers have to say about cars in simulation.

But most topics about physics are quickly hijacked... Maybe it will turn into another FFB thread? I'll give it 3 more pages...

 

Ok understand but my personal observation and mentioned issues are still there even the image can't explain the reason and i have nothing to add on OP, because i don't know the iRacing one, while i usually don't compare sim pysics to understand. Its just possible to the real thing and the more with telemetry. So sorry for hjacking the thread.

 

The National is a lot better. I've uploaded plenty of rF2 if you want to see how I work in the other cars, the Corvette is easily my favorite. The Skip in general isn't my "style" but it's not exactly entirely foreign.

Corvette? No problem.
Camaro? No problem.
F2? No problem.
National? No problem.

Hell, two days prior I praised ISI for doing a great job with the Camaro, so there is your unbiased-ness from me I guess!

 

I have said this over and over again. No sim will EVER feel like a real car. Not even in a motion sim (they are limited to 1G). So naturally we will feel like we are on ice because in a real car ice will not be able to produce g-forces on our body either. What is important is that the gfoces in the game (telemetry) are comparable to real life (telemetry) and that the car reacts to inputs the way the real car does. I haven't driven a Skippy IRL but I have driven road cars with comparable tires (to the Regional Skippy) and I have actually owned several sets of R1's on my AutoX car. To me the Skippy feels perfectly believable. I actually prefer the National version. The Skippy is a trainer car, it is designed to be very neutral for learning purposes. I think people get used to driving cars with massive downforce and very grippy tires and expect everything to drive the same way. The Regional has street tires and even the the slicks that are on the National are nowhere near that of a slick found on a GT2 car.

People must go out and do two laps in the Skippys and then push them aside as not being realistic. You have to spend enough time with them to retrain your brain for the lack of grip. If this were real life, this adjustment period would be much shorter because we would have the physical forces on our body along with a brain that tells us not to go past the limit before we have even determined what the limit is.