Zero motion blur, amazing!!!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Spinelli, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Zero LCD motion blur, like CRT, amazing!!! (NO ghosting/trailing/artifacting/coronas)

    FIRSTLY, I just want to say that this is NOT a gimmick, is totally 100% free (assuming you have the right monitor), and that I am NOT affiliated with any person, company, or website, in any way, shape or form. I am just super excited as I, and many other gamers, have been waiting many years for something like this, thats all...

    GUYS!!!!

    If you have one of these below monitors and miss the "perfect motion clarity" of a CRT, you're in big luck!

    - ASUS VG248QE - VG278H - VG278HE, BENQ XL2411T - XL2420T - XL2420TX - XL2720T, ACER HN274H - HN274HB. SAMSUNG S27A950D, and the SAMSUNG 23" and 27" SA700D, SA750D, and SA950D series.
    (Samsung also works with AMD Cards, but most of, if not all the Samsung's are not official lightboost monitors, therefore please read the Samsung how to link below for more info).

    - Best LightBoost monitors are 1ms monitors (ASUS VG248QE and BENQ XL2411T) due to reduced crosstalk between refreshes. Also ASUS VG278H (non "E") is better at LightBoost than VG278HE (less crosstalk on non "E").


    "Yes, I've finally found the holy grail of gaming in 2D mode on an LCD monitor: zero motion blur! It literally displays motion as good as a CRT and then some
    . I was so stoked when I first saw the effect today, that my jaw literally dropped and I played my game open mouthed, it was that awesome! This combined the crystal clarity of an LCD display with the motion sharpness and smoothness of a CRT, all at a fast 120Hz screen refresh rate. This is something I'd never seen before and looks truly amazing - better than even a CRT. Note that 3D Vision has always eliminated motion blur in 3D mode using the shutter glasses.

    All LCD monitors show significant motion blur, even my new Asus VG278HE monitor which supports a 144Hz refresh rate and NVIDIA 3D Vision 2 LightBoost, since it's inherent in LCD technology. At 144Hz the motion blur is much reduced though. This of course looks rubbish when playing any kind of animated game, especially a fast moving FPS game, which is why it's such a crying shame for gamers that CRT's became obsolete, since they didn't suffer motion blur. Even if you can't obviously see the blur due to the fast pace of the typical FPS game, the effect is still there, degrading the picture and your enjoyment of the game.

    Note that this works only with NVIDIA graphics cards however, since it uses the LightBoost feature introduced in 3D Vision 2, which is proprietary.

    The Resulting Zero Motion Blur


    What happens?



    • All trailing artifacts disappears! Ghosting, coronas, etc.
    • All motion blur disappears!
    • No motion blur when you play video games, even during fast motion.
    • The zero motion blur effect will also occurs on the Windows desktop (might need to enable some registry tweak)

    How is it possible?

    • LightBoost is a programmable strobe backlight stays turned off while waiting for pixel persistence. The pixel transitions are kept in total darkness, and the backlight is strobed only after pixel transitions are finished. This bypasses pixel persistence as the motion blur barrier. The strobe lengths are only 1 milliseconds long on the BENQ, and 2 milliseconds long on the ASUS. The 1ms strobes eliminate of 94% motion blur (1ms out of 1/60sec) relative to a common 60Hz LCD, and eliminates 85% of motion blur (1ms out of 1/120sec) relative to 120Hz LCD’s.
    • Here’s proof demonstrated by a YouTube high speed (1000fps) video of a LightBoost strobe backlight successfully bypassing pixel persistence as the motion blur barrier. For some explanations, see the Scanning Backlight FAQ.
    • There are lots of “It’s like a CRT” testimonials.

    Some notes

    • Minor Side Effects: Different color, dimmer screen (slight crimson tint on BENQ, fixable via a new monitor profile, nVidia color calibration), different brightness, some flicker feel (if you are sensitive to CRT flicker).
    • Currently, at the time of this writing, LightBoost works only at 100Hz, 110Hz or 120Hz

    CRT style gaming on LCD

    It is CRT sharp; allowing complete immersion without being distracted by motion blur. You do need a GPU (GTX 680) fast enough to frequently hit 120fps@120Hz most of the time to really notice the big improvement in motion clarity, with perfectly clear images even during fast turning. Also, disable the GPU artificial motion blur effects in video games, as that reintroduces motion blur that you’ve zero’d out with this strobe backlight tweak. Also, some source-engine games needs their fps_max raised at the developer console, to play smooth. Also try turning VSYNC on versus off, since some games play more smoothly with one or the other setting (game-dependent). If you are a big-time gamer that plays lots of TF2 or Quake Live, or other fast-twitch action games, the CRT-style motion clarity more than outweighs the other side effects for some games.

    - TONS of threads about this, with AMAZING results and experiences

    http://www.techngaming.com/home/guide/tips/updated-eliminate-motion-blur-while-gaming-with-nvidia-lightboost-r485#ixzz2LGD1hsY5
    "

    http://www.esreality.com/post/2344664/benq-xl2411t/

    - LightBoost HOW TO.

    -
    Lightboost Samsung HOW TO

    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1734114

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2290334

    http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18476129



    GUYS!!! I tried this out the other night at a friends house on a BenQ. IT IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    At this time, the strobing can only be enabled in 120 hz mode, or 100 or 110, if you cant get your frames up to 120, but I highly recommend 120hz. They say that a 60hz strobing monitor looks just as good, if not better than a 120hz non-strobed, so based on that, I am pretty sure a 120hz strobed, will look even much better than a 144hz non-strobed, I am reading that this does add a tiny bit of input lag, people are saying the added amount is so tiny it doesnt matter at all, and the motion clarity more than makes up for it. Hmmmmmmm, I gotta do more research on the added input lag, but ppl are having amazing results and are saying that they have gamed better than ever with it enabled, and that they are finally back to CRT levels, they say they almost feel like they are cheating now LOL.

    The 1ms strobes eliminate 94% of motion blur (1ms out of 1/60sec) relative to a common 60Hz LCD, and eliminates 85% of motion blur (1ms out of 1/120sec) relative to 120Hz LCD’s!!!!!


    - PLEASE ALSO READ QUOTED SECTIONS OF POST #11 AND #13 OF THIS THREAD :)

    - AMAZING RFACTOR 2 Lightboost results, with HARD DATA TO PROVE IT!! (Post #15).

    - Note, the list of 6 or 7 links I posted to other threads with more info and many, many others' amazing experiences, seems to not show up when I check the thread on my IPhone through TapaTalk, so you might have to use you're phones regular browser, or go on your computer to view the list of posted links (above the youtube video)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2013
  2. Golanv

    Golanv Registered

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    Good post, thanks.

    How does this help me with my 42" lcd LG?
     
  3. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    OP updated with monitors models (there may be some more out now, those models were listed about 2 month ago) :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2013
  4. John.Persson

    John.Persson Registered

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    So my dell U27 sucks..... :mad:
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Im sure its still beautiful :)
     
  6. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Wow, level 7 to level 20.

    brb, going to test it on mine.

    edit:

    My monitor sucks too. lol

    I can just manage level 7 with some mistakes occasionally. Level 9 and above is almost always a mistake, only a very few times i managed to get it correct by shear luck with letters next to each other that are more easily distinguishable from one another. Level 20 is just a joke.

    edit 2:

    Spenelli, what's the visual effect if fps goes below 120? For example, bf3 with gfx settings only gives me 60-80fps and i don't want to sacrifice the gfx quality tbh in that game. For rf 2 i don't mind as much since i'm use to it now to lower the overall lag. Or maybe with lightboost this is not a problem?

    edit 3:

    Lastly, depending on the answer to edit 2 questions, do the problems associated with a sort of lack of clarity when racing with lower fps (e.g. around 60fps) vs higher fps (e.g. up to and around 178fps with KeiKei's gfx settings) completely go away? So you can play with lower fps and still feel that it's smooth?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2013
  7. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Hmmmm not sure about the less than 120 fps situations to be honest. So many ppl have been trying it, the forums are filled with ppls experiences, so I need to research more about that. Some guy said it's best at 120hz/120fps, but even when frames where varying over 120 fps it was still great, under the refresh rate, I'm not sure, I gotta research more. I think there might be too much crosstalk at fps=half of refresh rate, but I will do more research.

    That level 20 was crazy lolol, I honestly wasn't expecting that considering a 120hz non-strobed (with either 1 or 2 ms depending on his monitor model) couldn't even get passed level 7! WOW, truly amazing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2013
  8. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Same here with Asus VG278HE without LightBoost.

    :)
     
  9. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Why quote the word Spenelli and twice?

    KeiKei, have you had much experience using lightboost? If so, what's is like with 120hz and when the fps is below 120 due to graphics settings (even as low as 60fps)? I'm considering your monitor but would like to know how it performs in different situations and maybe it can compensate to make the game feel smoother than a normal monitor at 60 fps without lightboost (perhaps just wishful thinking).

    edit:

    ...and with? :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2013
  10. Axeslayer

    Axeslayer Registered

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    Think I'll stick with my trusty old CRT and keep waiting for OLED to arrive .
     
  11. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    And with lightboost on?

    why? Have u not tried it? Have u not read the hundreds of claims, even from guys that didn't want to jump to lcds from crts like you (I used to be one of those guys as well). It's one of those things that's truly almost unbelievable until you actually try it :).

    See my third quote below on post #13 :)

    ALSO,

    "here's some quotations I've collected from CRT users who have confirmed the zero motion blur effect of LightBoost LCD's from various forums"

    Just as good, if not better than the Sony FW900 CRT, WOWWW!!!!


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2013
  12. Novis

    Novis Registered

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    And you are sure that motion blur is a bad thing?
     
  13. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Trailing, artifacting, ghosting, etc etc, things that never existed with perfect crts, things that manufacturers have been trying to lessen more and more for years, are good things? High pixel response times are a good thing? 60hz monitors with much more blur are better than the more clear 120hz and 144hz monitors? Not being able to see clearly until you stop your mouse and give the screen a fraction of a second to set are good things? Not being able to read scrolling text across a screen at relatively slow speeds is a good thing?

    Of course its bad lol.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2013
  14. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Motion blur is not necessarily a bad thing or an unnatural thing but it is when unnaturally induced by the monitor.

    To give you an example....imagine you take a corner at high speed but you focus your eyes on some fixed object in the scene (that's outside of the car) and that fixed object is therefore moving across the screen as the car corners. Well, the monitor is going to add a certain amount of motion blur (dependent on things such as how fast you are moving, ghosting amount of the monitor, etc) to that object as it moves across the pixels on your screen. In real life, if you were to focus your eyes on this fixed object as you drove by it, you would not experience any motion blur because your eyes are fixated (following) it (unless you are going so fast by it that you could'nt move your eye's quickly enough to stay fixated-on/tracking it).

    Now, for non fixated vision around a corner (e.g. you take into view your entire viewable surrounding as you drive), in real life the amount of motion blur depends on factors such as your speed and the amount of vibration whilst in the car (which adds a second layer to this overal rapid change in direction of object(s)/scene that is the cause of motion blur). Now to replicate this on a monitor correctly, the monitor needs to be perfectly motion blurless to begin with because the correct motion blur effect (if it should be present) will produce itself naturally as it would irl.

    Hope that convoluted explanation of mine made sense. :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2013
  15. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    How about changing it to Spinelli? :)

    No it was max level 7 without LightBoost. However I found a guide for making it work on my monitor without buying the IR-transmitter. Now level 20 is piece of cake! :) Difference is huge. The trick was to update monitor driver with a fake inf file so nVidia drivers would think it has the IR-transmitter built-in. :) Here's the guide.

    When I tested Vette at LRP I immediately felt input lag being actually lower with LightBoost at 120 Hz than at 144 Hz without it. I know it doesn't make sense but input lag measurements and driving tests tell otherwise. :) Check out results.

    By the way LightBoost was causing big hit on framerate at first. Maybe it was because game was producing some extra 3D stuff or something. I also had to press Ctrl+T every time game started because it was so unresponsive. So after the monitor started working on LightBoost mode I unticked the "Enable stereoscopic 3D" checkbox from nVidia Control Panel and it actually worked! rF2 was no longer going to 3D mode, framerate went up and also no need to press Ctrl+T anymore. Monitor still in LightBoost mode of course (stayed on even after OS reboot).
     
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  16. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    WOW!!! AWESOME RESULTS!! ! Even better than what I expected. Im so glad it worked out for you! :)

    Wow your results are amazing! KeiKei, I really hope sim-racers do take notice of not just this thread, but your amazing results with Lightboost in RFactor 2 as well (Post #15).

    Maybe you should bold the test 4 section of your post ;)

    Just curious, what level could you do the test at with non-strobed 144hz? Just curious how much of an improvement it is over non-strobed 120hz, I guess it doesnt really matter since we have lightboost at 120hz, but just curious...

    I hope NVidia makes a driver update to enable lightboost on 144hz!!!!! And a quicker/easier way to enable/disable it.

    Thanks DrR1pper for that explanation on post #14!
     
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  17. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    hehe, just hope it kinda made sense to all reading it.

    I've just ordered an ASUS VG278HE, arriving Wednesday...internet shopping rocks, lol. However, I'm not looking forward to my next bank statements at this rate.

    KeiKei & Spinelli, not sure if i'm asking the same question again but i don't think either of you have answered me (please correct me if wrong) but what's the performance feel like when the in game fps is down around the 60fps mark? I would like to hopefully be able to crank all the settings back up to allow for all the graphical glory so long as rf2 feels smooth (unlike my previous experience with vsync video disabled). Cheers if you can answer this for me.
     
  18. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    If you can make do with a 24 inch inch, then the BENQ XL2411T and ASUS VG248QE, are apparently the best for this as they are 1 ms monitors, the others I believe are 2 ms which gives more cross-talk between the strobe of each refresh. On top of this, the XL2411T also supposedly has some of the lowest input lag of any monitor.

    If you do go for the 27 " Asus, and if you dont mind spending some extra money then...."ASUS VG278H (non "E") is better at LightBoost than VG278HE (less crosstalk on non "E")".

    However, as KeiKei pointed out, I think you will be satisfied either way :)

    Im pretty sure if you dont have it at fps = refresh (or higher fps) then you can maybe have some image issues. I read that the lightboost (and monitor refresh rate???) can be reduced to 100 hz (50 hz in 3d mode) at the lowest, you will have to test if that brings any image irregularites or eyestrain due to lower refresh rate or more apparent strobing. Many ppl wont notice or get eye strain from the strobing even at 100hz, but its definetely less/slower/longer refresh than 120hz (60hz in 3d mode), and even more so if you have a 2ms display vs a 1ms, (due to more cross-talk).
     
  19. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Multiply that in ten and you'll know how happy I am! :)

    Heheh, yeah it's the most important part obviously. :) I'd like to see some LightBoost tests from other monitors too. I suspect reduced input lag was just a special case because Asus might be using some overdrive technology on higher refresh rates when LightBoost is off. I mean how else could that be explained?

    I think tested non-strobed only at 144 Hz. Level 8 was the best with little luck on guessing letters. LightBoost on I can clearly see individual letters at max level 30 but those damn things are traveling so fast that there's no way I could do it in 60 seconds. Next time I'll buy wider one! ;)
     
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  20. KeiKei

    KeiKei Registered

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    Welcome to the club! :) Interesting to see which one you will choose; 120 Hz, 144 Hz or LightBoost 120 Hz.

    I don't think it's good idea to let FPS go so down with high refresh rate monitor. I'd say minimum of 100 or 110 and only for short periods of time. I would personally choose steady 120 Hz over any graphical candy any time! Bet you'll agree with me after few weeks of enjoyment at high framerate. :)
     

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