Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by LokiD, Aug 10, 2019.
Please read again only the last line. Everything is going to be fine.
I share your frustration...
The features that are the priority for them (UI, Competition System) delayed because of some bugs they found (people warned several times), the rF24h was a good thing that happen because it made them realise there were serious bugs affecting the simulator and to look into the home work that had to be done...
With the new UI, lots of parts needed to be rewritten/hooked, you can't just pick old options and put a nice letter font on it and i can imagine the mess they found that ISI left, that takes time... a LOT!
I understand people want things rushed out, i don't, i prefer honestly that they deliver the best possible UI/fixes in the next HUGE update, that day will be epic. I'm sure that after that, after all the little details are in place they'll start deliver fixes much faster for the various parts of the simulator, they know there are lots of things to fix/improve/implement, the future is bright for those who wait
Really? Then, though it is absolutely not necessary, I put this here again: https://forum.studio-397.com/index....y-in-wet-races-other-rain-issues.53834/page-6
Two years gone. And what were/have been/are we doing? Yes, waiting. This is just one example. And I know that half-full glass thing, but I'd rather like a full glass. And I have to admit, I really envy your patience.
It's not patience, i still racing, nothing changed! And there are lots of good things to do in real life!
If it's taking too long? Yes, i share the frustration too! But i understand and already wrote that there are things that need to be made from scratch, that take time, if not, the "low patience" army will strike again!
This narrative can work with people with zero development experience and/or blinded customers. Two years are simply too much for UI+competition development. Even worse when you consider that the team who work on it already had experience on the project since they were already part of original ISI dev team.
Really at this point there is ZERO excuse to justify two years of development. If the team is small, aka one man development, hire more. If the programming and/or software engineering skills are lacking then hire someone with specific skills. If you don't have the money to hire then charge more! etc..
I've seen great programmers drown when it comes to design a software architecture, leading to messed up development that took more than double the time required still with poor results.
Obviously i don't know the real reason behind the delay but i definitely know that UI+competition should not take not even a full year of development. If does take a year or more then something is pretty wrong. Accepting by faith that the delay is natural is simply wrong and feed bad products development. Gaming industry is full of bad development defended with swords by worshipers.
We don't even know their actual workflow, nor difficulties they face. We only know that stretch is big at this moment. I see no troubles enoying other titles or completely stepping away from virtual games for a while.
Army? Only a couple of ppl are left here that wants to share their opinion on the ridicilously slow developement of this sim. Most have thrown in the towel long ago. I honestly think thats why the devs arent around much here - they know that they dont have to nurse the ultra loyalists here who clap their hands every roadmap...
Exactly what I wanted to say, but kept to myself I'll just add that there's no need to prove anything to anyone or "defend rF2", if there are better options to match your preferences, just enjoy them. I did the same with Raceroom and might come back to R3E if it ever gets features I miss. Meanwhile I switched to option that matches my needs better. Developers do know about all the issues, missing features etc, but they have their priorities.
Read the RD interview, one of the answer it was said they moved staff to do the Grand Tour Game. Now... putting rF2 codebase into lumberyard and putting it on consoles... I'm going to guess it took at least a year too
"The first is probably that we in general were a bit too optimistic. The second was The Grand Tour Game, which for us was a huge project, one we had to obviously scale up for and given the tight schedule, that also meant taking away some resources from UI development (and since that was all under strict NDA we could not really share that with our community either). The third was that we underestimated one crucial aspect of the project, namely the way the UI and engine state were intertwined in several places. This is a bit of a technical issue, developers who are familiar with the MVC pattern will probably understand it when I say that part of the M was entangled in the V and C, which made it a lot more difficult to untangle and clean up the code to replace the old UI with the new. We’re almost there now, and I think it’s a pretty exciting development!"
The full quote
This, and you talk about the tyre model being broken under ISI, apparently a reference to the QSA adjustment. Then you talk about blind customers. What the?
Oh the drama because of some little freakin´ teaser for a teaser.
Been playing allmost all sims the last couple of months and weeks, participating in a PC2 league, running some german community events for rF2 here an there, playing AC with the fantstic sol mod, running an AMS offline season and even trying out iRacing the last couple of days. And oh boy, none of them is polished nor perfect, most of them even exibiting some very basic design faults. MP in iRacing is great they said, until you try to join a lobby with your friends and I won't even talk about driving standards.
I am still amazed that people allways try to find faults or beat a dead horse when there are so many options and opportunities to have a great sim racing experience. And rF2 is certainly able to deliver.
Strawman argument aside (people? Who?), the first two posts in this thread have a "I'm ready to give up. rF2 is about to die" tone. That's what I'm responding to - I don't see why there's a time limit.
If AMS2 (for example) becomes the best racing experience for simmers in 6 months, and people whose opinion here I trust say it's the bee's knees, I'll go race AMS2. That still doesn't mean rF2 is dead for me - if it becomes the best in 3 years I'll come back.
That's not fanboyism, that's pragmatism. Right now, despite the many flaws and shortcomings (and many areas of stalled development... remember the calls for sparks about 2 months in? The sparks rF1 had? And we still don't have?) rF2 is the best option I can see for me, so that's where I am.
But I also don't 'like' every roadmap update, so perhaps I'm not the type of person you're referring to
I came, I read, I learnt nothing.
In keeping with the theme of this thread I think it's important for everyone to know that I've almost* given up on this thread.
*Depends if alcohol gets consumed.
I guess we are on the same side. We all are. But have different perspectives, and express our feelings and thoughts in different ways. From a certain point of view, the one who says "this game is dead, I give up" is the real "fanboy", because he/she wants the game to be better so badly. And others just say: "so what? I don't care".
This is why I don't understand, why are they telling others to go and play something else, when they are the ones who do that?
I don't think there's much difference, honestly. I just don't see any point continually talking about what the game is missing, or what it needs. I think the devs have a good handle on that already. (whether they end up addressing all those is something we'll see, but we shouldn't try to predict it based on apparent competencies or motivations - that's unrealistic and unfair)
You could argue there's something to be gained by talking about what's missing, or what could be better (and that's already been done - a lot - and continues to happen). I don't know if there's anything to be gained (for rF2) by posting that it's dying and you're going to play something else. More often we see that sort of talk from people who seem to actually not care at all for rF2 and instead post about what it's lacking compared to <game x>. I don't get how that could be seen as any sort of fanboyism. I like this game so much I'm going to stop playing it because it doesn't do everything I want it to do yesterday? Doesn't make sense to me.
Playing another game doesn't make someone a traitor, and if you never play anything else you can't properly judge this game. So, for instance, when I say to someone to go play something else and try rF2 again later, I'm not being hypocritical - if I want something rF2 doesn't have, I'll go find a game that has it. And then I'll come back to rF2 for what it has that the other game lacks. (Actually on a personal level I'm too cheap and don't have enough time to do that, so instead I'll try other games when I get the opportunity (friends, free demos) and keep playing rF2 unless I see a compelling reason to play something else)
I don't talk about lack of competency or motivations. I talk about lack of attention to customers, about constant unrealized promises.
And now I'm confused. But anyway, I am really starting to feel you are right, and all these continuous talking about the missing points of this game just doesn't make sense anymore, because s397 will always do what they want. They have their own priorities, not mine or others'. And at this point, I guess it is competition system and multiplayer. Nothing else. Maybe they see a bigger picture, and they want to be the new iRacing. And when they release the new UI with this new system sometime this year (or maybe next year), and they would finally be able to start to concentrate on other core aspects of the game... Well, they won't do that. Because then will start the bug hunting season 1, then season 2. And of course we will wait (of course not you, but me, and people like me), and try to convince ourselves that the waiting will be worth it. Again and always. Am I cynical? I must be.
every single person in this thread has made valid points. Maybe my beer injected frustration at the time, for rf2 feeling like its going at a snails pace in progress - wasn't in need of sharing here.
However as much as rf2 as great qualities I don't believe theres not one single person who is a little tired of waiting.
and yes I am a fan of rf2 - I want it to succeed... not be given the rep it pretty much has everywhere, as being slow unfinished amateurish etc etc, even if I do agree with them partly.
I can see how that was confusing, same words, different context
Anyway, we're all waiting and hoping. And I'll be here with you, don't worry.
I think you meant ISN'T (a little tired of waiting). Maybe I'm wrong on that one as you said Not one who is (a little tired of waiting).
Anyway I am not tired of waiting. I'm having a great time in Rfactor2.
Just thought I should share that fact.
We can spend very good moments on rF2 and be tired of waiting.
This is not antinomic.
Separate names with a comma.